I had been on Mirtazapine, (also known as Remeron or Zispin) for well over 5 years. I never felt it did very much and the side effects of the drug were hellish.
Much to my despair I was told I'd be on the stuff for the rest of my life because my depression had been so treatment resistant. I hated being on it - the side effects were worse than the depression! My mouth was so dry I could literally go for hours without the need to swallow which put an end to my singing activities. I had vivid and disturbing dreams. I felt drowsy most of the time and couldn't get through the day without napping. I had the famous hangover effect in the morning. I kept involuntarily biting my tongue when my jaw went in to spasm. I had terrible food cravings for all the stuff that was bad for me, but I think the hardest to cope with was the continual thirst which accompanied the dry mouth. I got through at least 4-5 liters of water a day just to get by, and even then it wasn't enough. As a result I was peeing all the time, up through the night 5-6 times to go to the toilet and I never got a good refreshing sleep. I also wanted to have children in the future and I wanted to be off the drug before this situation even came up.
Summer 2012. I was told I would be getting a new consultant. The thought of somebody new was scary but I grabbed my chance. I explained all the trouble I was having with it. I had my arguments prepared and was ready to go to battle over it, but she astounded me 2 minutes into my plea saying that the drug obviously wasn't tolerable and that if I wanted to come off it, I could. I couldn't believe my ears! I'd been trying to persuade doctors to allow me to come off it for years. (I think if she had refused, I would have resorted to doing it on the quiet. I was so desperate). Amazing what a fresh pair of eyes can do! She did say that she wanted to see me regularly and for me to keep a diary and to withdraw slowly.
I've heard that Mirtazapine withdrawal is awful. Before I started cutting down, I looked at online forums so I would know what to expect but I didn't really find what I was looking for. Most people had been on it for much shorter periods than I had and more often than not the majority of people had given up with the withdrawal because it was just so awful. I knew what the possible withdrawal effects would be but nobody said how long this would last. Weeks? Months? Years even?
Despite knowing this particular drug is difficult to come off, I wasn't prepared for the hell it turned out to be.
I was on the maximum dose of 45mg. I got down to 15mg over four months without any trouble but as soon as I went down to 7.5mg it completely floored me. I ended up in bed for 2 weeks - I just had this huge urge to sleep all the time and I couldn't physically do anything. The consultant told me just to stop the drug completely and skip the last phase. She said that sometimes this happened with this dose although it's not known why.
Things got much better after that. The first night without any medication for nearly 15 years was terrifying. It was about a month sooner than I'd anticipated. What if I got ill again? Was I doing the right thing? I remembered all the side effects I was having and my desire to live a medication free life. My determination kicked in and I took the plunge.
I thought I'd escaped the withdrawal syndrome during weeks one and two. I felt great and much more energetic and alert! It was amazing, but it made me realize how much a zombie the medication had made me.
By the end of week two, I noticed my appetite going. Then a few days later - BAM! The full force of withdrawal winded me. For the first month after I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I had vertigo when I stood up, restless legs when I was in bed and I felt sick all the time. This was accompanied by flu-like symptoms and cold sweats.
My doctor wasn't all that interested, but it was my local pharmacy who helped me the most. They gave me medication to stop the nausea, build up drinks as I was losing a lot of weight and they advised me to keep a continual supply of high protein snacks and water by my bed.
I had to cancel all my engagements for the next 6 weeks. Thankfully things were winding down for Christmas and not much was happening anyway.
I'll be straight with you - it was utter hell. There were several occasions where I felt I couldn't go through with it and nearly gave up. I kept remembering the reasons why I wanted to come off the drug and that the withdrawal was only temporary and this gave me the courage to go on.
Gradually things got better but I'd no idea that the process would take 4+ months. Some days were better than others and I felt I'd made an improvement, then I seemed to go back to square one again which was disheartening.
Often I lost sight of my end goal but I'm glad I persevered with it.
Five months on and I have no regrets about coming off the drug. I feel so much better and my psychiatrist has agreed that I made the right decision to come off it. I have since been discharged from mental health services.
Any lasting effects? Yes. It took a long time for my sleep and eating patterns to return to something resembling normality. It's only in the last few weeks that these have got better and I've had to adapt to a whole different schedule.
I used to need 10+ hours' sleep a night plus daytime naps and I never felt refreshed when I woke in the morning. Now I'm tending to get 6 or 7 hours' sleep a night. Sometimes I feel really refreshed, sometimes I don't. I'm hoping this will eventually increase to 8 hours' sleep a night but it is much better than the zero sleep I got once the full withdrawal kicked in. I had a lot of excitement when I started dreaming naturally again. It took a while and for me it was a sure sign that my brain was adapting without the drug and beginning to heal.
My appetite is nowhere near what it used to be and I've never regained the weight I lost during that time. I'm now the same lanky shape I was as a teenager which is my natural body type. When I was on the medication I would put on weight even if I sniffed a delicious cake or bun, but now I find it very hard to put on weight.
Mentally I am much more alert and my friends say that I am actually 'present' now whereas before I tended to have a vacant glaze in my eyes. My memory is slightly better but this can go again when I'm stressed.
The main lasting downside is that I am more anxious than I used to be. It's annoying at times and if it gets very bad, I go to the gym and burn it off on the treadmill which is very effective.
I've not had the complete mental collapse I was expecting. Depression-wise I'm not any better or worse than I was when on the drug which confirmed my belief that the drug had no effect whatsoever.
If you are considering coming off Mirtazapine, be warned. It is not easy. Talk to your doctor about the options. It was better for me to come off the drug, but this might not be a suitable option for another person. Often, other antidepressants can be found which can be as effective without the same side effects. If you are wanting to come off antidepressants altogether sometimes switching to a drug with fewer withdrawal symptoms will make things much easier.
If you are really determined to come off the drug, hang in there and keep going - it WILL get better, I promise! You just have to keep your end goal in sight and remember why you are doing this. Give yourself plenty of time for the whole withdrawal and expect that some days will be a lot worse than others. Be very kind to yourself. Try to eat well if you can. I couldn't eat for the first month, but I had a stream of friends bringing in nutritious snacky supplies which kept me going.
If you are considering withdrawal, it's wise to let people know that you might be out of action for a while. Before I came off Mirtazapine, I was very stressed and busy. I used the initial month to have a complete break from everything which was nice as this window of time doesn't often come up, and I went back to "life" refreshed and rested.
Good luck!
*NOTE: This link was recommended in the comments section by a fellow poster. It covers many aspects of withdrawing from antidepressant medication and looks very helpful. I'll put it HERE to save scrolling!
(See also Mirtazapine withdrawal - 6 months on.., Mirtazapine withdrawal - 9 months on.., and Mirtazapine withdrawal - 1 year on..
Hi Kip, I'm so pleased I found your blog as I too am withdrawing from Mirtazapine. I was told by Psychiatrist that I could just stop as there is no withdrawal!!! I did not follow this advice and tapered over a month. I am now nearly 4 weeks completely off and still suffering. Sleep and headaches are a bit better although I have a constant tingling in my head. Appetite is poor and anxiety especially first thing is awful. I was taking 30mg for about 6 months and was hoping this would be over with soon. Does it really take 4 months? Again thanks for writing this, it is inspirational, Catherine
ReplyDeleteDid it eventually go and did u get better
DeleteDid it eventually go and did u get better
DeleteHi Kevin. I can't speak for catherine but I can tell you my own experience. I tapered down slowly and by the end was only taking 2.5mg so I figured I would have no/little withdrawal symptoms. I was wrong. First week I got migraines, sweats, nausea, dizziness and lack of appetite. Second and third weeks were the same. Fourth week I thought I was clear as my symptoms almost disappeared, but now that I am in week 5 they have come back. The hardest part for me is the nausea, headaches and hot skin. I am going to push through it though, because I know (hope) that it cant last forever.
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DeleteHi Catherine,
ReplyDeleteThanks for getting in touch. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with the withdrawal, but I'm glad you didn't go completely "cold turkey!" - Mirtazapine has the reputation for being one of the worst psychiatric drugs to come off in relation to the withdrawal syndrome.
I hope you begin to feel better soon! I kept a diary during my withdrawal, and I remember getting to the two month mark and thinking "I thought I'd be feeling a lot better by now...."
I got to the 3 month mark before I felt much better and it was so subtle that I hadn't even realised it!
Next month it will be six months for me, and my sleep and appetite continue to be a bit dodgy at times. It was suggested that I set up text alerts on my phone to remind me to eat, and often I still have to rely on these as I sometimes have no appetite at all.
For anxiety, I try to do mindfulness (although I never quite seem to have the time!) and I go through gallons of camomile tea which is an appetite stimulant, but also calms me down too.
It's hard to say how long it will last for you - every person is different, but maybe be prepared that it could go on for a while yet.
At one point I was finding the withdrawal so awful that my doctor told me to go back on a very small dose (7.5mg) which would ease the symptoms, but I was so determined to come off the drug I didn't do it.
Good luck with it all! Believe me, it DOES get better even though at the moment it seems like there's no end in sight. Hang in there, and let me know how you get on.
Best Wishes,
Kip.
hi Kip,
DeleteI have only been on Matarzapine 15mgs for 5 days and felt like a Zombie could not think and was feeling like I had flu felt cold Decided on the 6th day to have the dose to 7.5 mgs slept well but woke up with sore throat dry mouth and started to get the shakes.Have worse constipation than before which was the reason for my depression and anxiety in the first place.
I realise already that I should never have agreed with the doctors to go on it.
They persuaded that this would make me more relaxed and it was the Med with the least side effects.What they did not explain was that it was the worst to come off.
I am pleased that I decided to drop the amount early as I am already having problems.
I will try the Diazapam to taper off and not take anymore of this stuff.
Hi Ian, I hope it's all going well. Hang in there, it does get better!
DeleteK x
Kip, thank you so much. I am at almost 4 months, and still having misery. I thought I'd be better by now, and am quite discouraged. I se you say that it could take a while, and I am going to use that to help me keep from going back on that dreadful stuff. David
DeleteHi Kip,
ReplyDeleteThanks for you reply.
It really is a rollercoaster this withdrawal. I am also going through the grieving process due to the loss of my sister and Dad last year and this is what has lead me to where I am now. I reached a crisis and had medication thrown at me, then changed, then changed again. I think my brain is quite pickled at the moment. Sometimes it is hard for me to distinguish between grief and depression, however I'm quite sure that the Mirtazapine withdrawal is a huge culptit at the moment as all these symptoms didn't appear until it was stopped. Anyway, I was just wondering if you experienced tingling in your head whilst coming off this drug? The nausea and headaches are not as intense and I am able to go to work albeit on a phased return and limited mental activity. This tingling is driving me mad and I even get it when I'm trying to sleep (sleep is very limited). I never had problems with sleep before!!!
Kind regards, Catherine
Dear Catherine,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry things are not so good at the moment.
During my withdrawal, I never experienced tingling, but I did get 5 or 6 "brain zaps" which was more like an electric shock going through my head. Kept thinking I was having a stroke. It is a recognised physical side effect of the withdrawal, so what you're going through is quite common with this drug.
If you're finding you can't cope with it, it is maybe worth going back on a very small dose of the drug (7.5mg) which would relieve it, but I would suggest going to your doctor. The same was suggested to me when I was having appetite and sleep problems. Although I took months to taper the drug off, it was thought that it should have been longer and that's why my side effects were quite severe. I was told that it would relieve my symptoms while getting my brain used to the lower dose for longer. I refused because I was worried that I'd have to go through the whole withdrawal again. (I was later told that wouldn't have happened).
It's six months this month for me, and my sleep is almost back to normal, but my appetite remains dodgy which is a real pain!
It's ironic that often the withdrawal symptoms mimic the illness, and that's why many people get in to the on-off cycle. The sure test for withdrawal/illness is, if your symptoms disappear within a day of taking a dose, then it is withdrawal. If your symptoms take a few weeks to disappear while starting the drug again, it is likely to be the illness.
When my sleep was bad, I turned to the herbal side of things. Lavender on my pillow at night was very relaxing. A hot bath. A massage or reflexology during the day to help with relaxation. I also tried some of the sleep hypnosis apps which actually really helped! The gym also helped a lot too.
During the first month, I didn't sleep at all and aimed to go to bed much much later than I normally would have (1am onwards), I'd then wake at 6am, and I gradually got in to a routine that way, then as time went on, I went to bed at 12.30, then 12, then 11.30 etc.
I hope this helps a bit!
Hope you get on ok.
Best wishes,
Kip.
Hi Kip,
ReplyDeleteI'm now on 11 weeks completely off Mirtazapine. Last week I felt so much better and this week I feel back to the beginning!!!! Itching,tingling head, skin crawling, headaches, crying. Don't know if it's due to life stresses and the fact that work seem to think I should be 'better' now. I actually work for the NHS and I have been made to feal fearful for my job because even though I am in work I am still struggling.
Your articles are very interesting I hope by writing them they help you in some way.
Best wishes Catherine
Dear Catherine,
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry to hear you're still suffering from the withdrawal, but glad that you've had a glimpse of a light at the end of the tunnel the other week. Try to keep that in mind..that it will gradually get better. It may take a long time..I'm still getting the odd nasty surprise even now!
It sounds like you're having a rough time at work. Being the NHS, you'd think they would be more understanding! Is there somebody you feel you could speak to about work - an NHS staff counselor? - about the pressures you feel under and what your rights are? Failing that, there are also advocacy services available who do a fantastic job and are in the know about things like that.
Take care of you, and don't be too hard on yourself! Going by my own experience..Sometimes things can get worse if I place too much pressure on myself to be "well" and so on. Stress, for me is the thing that's most likely to make me unwell. Things like meditation and mindfulness help me a lot - are you in to any of that sort of stuff? Adjusting to life without medication is a bit of trial and error! Accept that crap days will come.
It is hard to tell how long the whole thing will take. I think the fact that you've started to get an improvement is a good sign. I still don't feel quite right, (7 months now) and in some ways I have gone back to the drowsy, thirsty person I was before the withdrawal!
My mood has been pretty good, but oddly last week I had the antsy itchy feeling all over and broke the skin on my hands and arms scratching! There's also been a few nights of restless legs too, which took me straight back to the withdrawal. Very strange - I thought I was well and truly past that!
I'm really glad you find my posts interesting! It's always hard to gauge if they are too long, heavy or boring etc! They're not that heavy to me, but I can get pretty intense at times..
In a way I find it quite therapeutic writing them. I hope that I'll be raising awareness, but I'm not so good on the philosophising!
I was determined to write about Mirtazapine withdrawal because all the stuff I read..most people had given up early in the withdrawal process and had no real idea of what to expect, so if it's helped in any way, that's great!
I hope that you are feeling a bit better. Hang in there - You're doing so well! Some days you'll feel you're back to square one, but it will slowly get better.
Let me know how it goes.
Best wishes,
Kip x
My sincere thanks. I was thinking about using mertazapine to help with Valium withdrawals. You just changed my mind.
DeleteYou're welcome! Best wishes, Kerry
DeleteKip, this is definitely the most accurate description of mirtazapine withdrawal I have read to date and I have read a lot of accounts of peoples mirtazapine nightmares. I stopped taking mine 30 days ago and my experiences mirror yours exactly. Over the past 8 months I have stopped taking pregabalin, then lofepramine, mirtazapine and have reduced morphine from at one point 740mg to 120mg daily. the mirtazapine is definitely the worst in terms of withdrawal. I have now lost nearly 60lbs in weight after going from a muscular lean 17st to 22 and a half stone. I have been going to the gym 6 days a week for 90-120 minutes even though I feel rough. I now look pretty good again so my confidence and self esteem is back but I am exhausted and impatient to be back to full health and able to live a complete life. I have no anxiety or depression so I am lucky in that respect but the loss of appetite for someone my size is very difficult. I am drinking about 30 raw eggs a day and eating as much nutritious food as I can but the nausea is a pain in the arse. hopefully I will feel better soon. the hardest part is having the occasional day or two when I eat fine and sleep well, only to have 5 bad days??? I hate my idiot doctor who prescribed mirtazapine to me as a sleeping tablet without explaining any of the side effects or considering the risk of diabetes when prescribing mirtazapine to a 280lb patient ! I gained 35lbs in 7 weeks !!
DeleteInteresting. I'm trying to sort out what to do with myself. I've been on and off antidepressants for the last 10 or more years, including mirtazapine for the last 5 or so (can't really remember). It's been the most effective drug for me long term; everything else (and I've had basically everything available here in NZ) has worked for a while, then after a while on ever-increasing dosages, made me feel worse or became ineffective. I've been to three specialists, including one who specialised in bipolar disorder, who thought that's what I had (likely, given periods of highs and lows). He prescribed epilim, which made me feel really bad, so I chucked it out.
ReplyDeleteAt the moment, I'm on a very small dose of mirtazapine - just break a small piece off a 15mg tablet, so it's probably around 2-3mg. I've been doing this for a few years. Every so often I decide I've had enough of it, and stop for a few days, but end up feeling really down and start on it again. This week has been the worst I can remember; I stopped for five days, but it coincided with having nothing much to do at work except stuff I couldn't understand, so I feel really crappy, guilty, bored, and suicidal and started on them again a few days ago (which hasn't really helped).
Can't say I've ever had bad withdrawal symptoms, probably because of the low (and probably ineffective) dose. I just get tired of carb cravings and weight gain when I am on them.
I just want to feel semi-normal, motivated, useful, and non-suicidal. At the moment it all seems pretty much unattainable, and my job (yet another foolish career choice) makes me feel guily, bored, and unfulfilled. It's hard to see a way out, and my wife's urging to see my MD doesn't help because I know he'll just tell me to keep on taking the mirtazapine.
- Ian in NZ
Its a drug that compensates for cannabis,it fucks ur head if you drink.its a nasty drug,that an ex made me take.the effects are like cannabis without paranoid
DeleteIts actually an anti depressant that's pumped out 2 young people that experienced the E and cannabis 90's.its supposed 2 help!! But, like me,you only take this drug as it has same cannabis effect.its 2 "cure" the 90's rave.its a nightmare.coming off it is stay up all night.swear.it affects EVERYTHING.anger is most.ANGER
ReplyDeleteFuck.I only have 1 tablet left.this is how mad this is.ive drank all night as only 1 till Thurs.it consumes you.your life revolves around "that tablet".fuck it.I've had enough.its had a very bad impact on my life.DRUGS.....
ReplyDeleteI Have tried twice an failed twice now on my third try ... its been 4 days now (here comes the storm) but am thinking after the storm there's normally Sunshine ....... I Personaly wish I had never even bothered taking it, 2 years on my life has just been a blur Good look , Mr D Ps if your Reading these articles (Chin up)
ReplyDeleteHello
ReplyDeleteI have been on Mirtazapine for 2 years... and stopped almost 1 month now.
first week was good... then it became worse.
The doctors told me when starting this medicine that you can just stop using it, without any problem, what a joke.
I do hope it will start to get better, because like this, I will not survive another month.
It was great to read this blog and the comments for some moral support.
Hi there,
DeleteI hope things are starting to get better - it took a lot longer than I ever thought it would and it was a lot worse than I was prepared for..
Hang in there! It'll get better.
What scared me the most was how many physical withdrawal effects there were for a psychiatric drug..
Good luck and let me know how it goes,
K:)
Hello Kerry,
DeleteIs it possible, by any means that we can get in touch via mail?
In the meantime I have read your complete blog and it has given me so much comfort and eased the pain...
I would like to know more about your withdrawal symptoms/duration/... and how you are doing for the moment.
Furthermore, I think you should think about starting a writers career, the stuff you post reads easily and there is a lack of info on what you (and others like me) go trough.
I am always willing to add my experiences if you should think about publishing a book. ;)
Let me know what you think.
best regards
Hello,
ReplyDeleteIt is though, but I try not to give up. The 'clear' moments make me not going back to taking the Mirtazapine.
Sometimes I have chest and heart pain, feels like I am going to die... had some days were I cried mostly, and severe panic attacks.
But, your blog keeps me going... hope this will end within a few weeks/months.
(sorry for my possible english spelling mistakes, I am from Belgium).
thanks for the moral support!
Peter
Dear Peter,
DeleteKeep going! Hang on to your clear moments when you lose the motivation to carry on.
Meditation might be useful - learning to listen to your body without the mirtazapine. It takes time to relearn how things used to be before psychiatric medication.
Let me know how it goes.
Kerry :)
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI have read your post countless times and am terrified of the symptoms I am having from mirtazipine withdrawl. I knew from the first dose of 15mg SolTab that I took I was having side effects. It effected my breating immediately, I was almost panting and then I fell asleep for 12 hours. I immediately told my GP about the side effects and he insisted I stay on it as I had tried 2 SSRI's and 2 SSNI's that had caused me 'worse'side effects. I stayed on the medication in combination with clanozapam for a month before I was sent for a stress test that I had to stop at the age of a 65 yr old (I'm 36, a runner and triathlete). The speciallist there told me to start weaning off mirtazipine, so I went to my pdoc who said to quit cold turkey. I explained my sensitivity to medication and asked for a script to wean off and he asured me there would be no side effects from stopping right away. Yesterday was week 3 from my last dose.
2 days later I'm rushed to the ER with an errratic heart beat, irregular sinus rhythm, heart and chest pain and immediately admitted to the cardiac floor. I was sent for an angiogram, have had 5 chest xrays, 2 CT scans, and cannot sleep at night.
When I try to sleep, I am woken every hour by a surge of adreneline, a heartrate 100-120, night sweats, nightmares, body tingles, feeling surreal at times. The nausea is unbearable. I've lost 40 lbs in 4 months (I was not big to begin with)
I have zero energy. I can barely climb the stairs. My GP has been on holidays, hoping to get an appt tomorrow, but I am so scared that some of these things could be permanant. The chest pain is unbearable. They also found fluid on my left lung.
What is this medication and how can it be 1)prescribed? 2)told to quit cold turkey? Not only can I not see the light, at this point, I can't even see the tunnel. Any advice on how to allieviate any of my symptoms would be great. I'm still taking the clanozapam, .5 3x's a day and tylonel. (I was prescribed Percoset and Morphine but refused)
Thank-you for reading.
Lost and Scared
Hi there,
DeleteI'm so sorry you're having such a hard time - it sounds dreadful. I would have gotten back to you sooner, but just returned from vacation.
Are you feeling any better?
It makes me angry when doctors tell patients to quit cold turkey - there is the well-known Withdrawal Syndrome that comes with these drugs.
Do you still have any of your previous mirtazapine prescription left? If you are finding it unbearable it might be worth cutting the tablets up in to half/quarter/eighth etc and withdraw very slowly.
I was advised to withdraw slowly over many months (6 originally) and even then I wish I had done longer.
I understand though if you want to quit cold turkey - I remember feeling the sooner I had nothing more to do with these drugs, the better.
It's very scary how much a physical effect it has, being a psychiatric drug.
I hope you managed to get an appointment ok with your GP.
Things to alleviate symptoms..I would suggest taking a small dose of the Mirtazapine, and wean off more gradually, again, I understand you might not want to do that..
Eat lots of protein..protein shakes were good for me, ginger or tablets from your pharmacy for nausea. Drink lots of water to keep yourself hydrated and to counteract the fluid lost during sweats.
Unfortunately a lot of it is just waiting it out..and if you're determined to stick with it, things will get better. Keep your end goal in sight that it will get better!
I can't believe my withdrawal was over 18 months ago, and I have no withdrawal symptoms left..it took a Lot longer than I thought.
Hang in there!
Let me know how you are and if there is anything else i can help with.
Kerry x
Other things that helper me were reflexology - it helped me sleep a bit better, as did hypnosis apps on my phone. They were great! They might also be useful for anti anxiety..
DeleteTreat yourself well - I went for massages which I found very relaxing!
If I think of anything else, I'll write back later!
Love Kerry x
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteThank-you so much for your reply. I feel so alone and reading this has given me a bit of hope back. I asked my pdoc for a prescription refil when he told me to quit cold turkey and he said no. He said there would be no side effects. I knew he was wrong but what could I do? I'm on day 26 since my last dose and cannot imagine taking it ever again. I was having heart and breating issues on the medication which just got much, much worse off the medication.
I saw my GP and he's not much help. I have had excrutiating chest pain on days and all he tells me is that it is because of my anxiety and depression. I know it's withdrawl. My legs have become weak and tingly and I'm losing m y blalnce at times. I have an appt with my pdoc today, but have no idea where that will go. Kerry, I'm scared. I really hope and pray none of these side effects are permanent. My head tingles now too which has been a great adition to the already unbearable life I'm trying to live.
I spend a lot of time in bed, but sleep is lack luster as I wake up with anxiety. That I must say has gotten a bit better. I'm only waking 2-3 times a night now, in a panic still, but less often. I'm seeing a psychologist and naturopath on Friday who can hopefully help. Again I'm really scared and feel alone. The physical symptoms are so unbearable at times it increases my anxiety and depression. What a vicious circle.
I really apprecaite you geting back to me and please keep in touch.
Hang in there do not give up - ever!!! Do not let this drug control your life. This too shall pass. I was on 15mg of Mertazapine for 1 1/2 years. I tapered off of it over the course of 1 month and thought I had gotten off easy as I hadn't had much in the way of withdrawal symptoms. It didn't dawn on me that they were yet to.come. I started to experience bouts of nausea, loss of appetite and restless nights. I am also experiencing bouts of indigestion. Having read this blog and the many people experiencing many of the same symptoms I'm having, I now know it's the effects of Mertazapine withdrawal I'm experiencing. It never dawned on me that this was what has been happening to my body. Thinking I was getting physically out of shape, I started working out like crazy and that did help. But I was still getting symptoms of nausea, indigestion, lack of appetite, intermittently sleep at night. Having read these write-ups, I at least know the culprit. It is a relief but I am worried as to how long feeling like this will last. I am a very healthy individual but I'm 70 years old. I no longer bounce back like I used to. I just hope the withdrawal is short-lived.
DeleteDear Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI cannot take much more of this. I feel like I am going to die. There is no relief. The chest pain is by far the worst followed by sick to my stomach, dizziness, super sore back muscles, no strength in my legs, headaches is there no one who can help in the medical community? I'm crying all the time, which hurts, is this really just withdrawl or is there something else wrong? I won't go to the ER or to my GP as they can't or won't help me. I don't want to take narcotics for the pain, clanozapam doesn't help, just adds to the dizziness. I need help. Soon.
I've just started ginger pills, I take advil, I don't know what else to do. Eating and even laying in bed hurts. Please, anything else you can think of that you did, please tell me. It will be one month tomorrow that I took my last 15mg dose. Why does this take so long? Am I doing somthing wrong? Did you have chest pain?
Please help.
That sounds terrible:( but well done on a whole month without the drug!
DeleteGoing back to your symptoms, is there any way you can get a second opinion from somebody- is there anyone you know who has a sympathetic Doctor? I'm really horrified your doctors are letting you go through all this without doing anything to help. I'm guessing the doctors don't really want to admit that there is the withdrawal syndrome at all...my Dr. wasn't that interested. It was my local pharmacy who kept in touch with me and made sure I was ok...
You are not doing anything wrong. Don't blame yourself for any of this.
Your body and brain are adjusting to life without the drug and because it was cold turkey, it is much harder on your system than if there had been a gradual reduction.
I did take diazepam and it helped a little bit, and I also took pills for motion sickness, and they really helped too. (I was able to eat and they stopped the dizziness).
Reflexology helped me sleep and I found it relaxing. I think my therapists' sympathetic ear and encouragement helped too..
I had mild chest pain..nothing like what you are experiencing, but my heart beat constantly at 220+bpm and I poured with sweat and was very breathless. I tried to control that with focusing on my breathing.
I also tried distractions to keep my mind off what I was feeling...I knitted away furiously whilst lying in my bed..it was practically the only thing I could do, and I read if I could concentrate but that wasn't often. Keep a journal charting everything - that was useful for me when I began to see improvements.
I also tried essential oils..soothing, calming oils like lavender helped a lot and I put it on my pillow, in my bath etc.
I know it seems like there is little light at the moment, and some of the above suggestions look rather flimsy and useless, but you must believe me when I say that, for me, the biggest help to get through the hell was the certainty that it would pass, that this hell is only temporary and that you will get through this. It might take longer than you want, but it will pass.
Stay strong! If I can do it, you can too. I'm living proof that it can be done, and I have no lasting effects now. I was terrified I'd be stuck with lasting problems but they all eased (at different stages in the withdrawal).
It just takes time. Once your body starts to get used to not having mirtazapine in it, things will begin to get easier. Believe me!
Hang on in there - you deserve a medal.
You can do it!
Kerry x x
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteHaving a really rough day, really rough. Very teary, very sick to my stomach, sore all over and I think I'm getting strep throat. Worst of all of this is I had 2 ok days. I was able to go to the park with my son and the babysitter, I couldn't do much but he begged me to come and I couldn't say no. I was having conversations with family.
Based on my calculations the Remeron is completely out of my system now. Now what? Should I be forcing myself to get out? Lying in bed is the worst, as I said waking up with anxiety is terrible. I know there is no crystal ball, I know there is no magic pill. Many Dr's are now involved as my heart and chest pain is becoming unbearable. I am seeing a naturopath in 2 weeks and could use any comment. You're really all I have when it comes to this withdrawl, if it's still withdrawl, or perhaps I'm just depressed as they sent me for so may tests and I found out yesterday they could have punctured something during my angiogram.
Thanks for keeping in touch.
Hi,
DeleteThanks for getting in touch again:)
It's good that you had an ok couple of days - when I felt a bit better, I kept those good days in mind for when the bad days came and saw no end.
Your body will probably still take a while to get used to life without the drug - How long were you on it for?
I guess it's like caffeine - your body gets used to it, and when you take it away, even long after the caffeine is out of your system, those crappy headaches still hang around!
If you can, it would be good to get out once in a while, even just a walk round the block. As time goes on, your energy will come back and it'll be easier to push yourself.
I wish I could be of more help-especially concerning your heart and chest pain. I was fortunate to escape most of that side of things and I wish I had some ideas or 'wisdom' to pass on:( They may have punctured something?? That's shocking.
But I know how helpful it can be to be in touch with someone who has been through most of it and understands just how horrendous this withdrawal can be. Somebody once told me that it was worse than heroin to come off, and now I believe them!
Let me know how it goes, and hopefully there'll be a few more good days in there too!
Kerry x
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI was on mirtazipine for one month, seems like such a short time, but had side effects from day one. 'Stay on it my Dr's said, difficulty breathing, heart and chest pain will go away...'. I just passed the week 5 mark and am starting week 6...praying for some relief. I have also been on Clanozapam (Klonipin) on and off for 3 years. My Dr's recommendation was to increase the dose of that during all that from 0.5 at night only to 0.5 3 x's a day. I'm finding it allows me to sleep for almost exactly 1 hour and I am getting depressed from it. There's a whole other med I'm going to need to withdrawal from that has brutal discontinuation effects.
How do you stay or did you stay positive? This constant feeling of being unwell is really taking it's toll. My friends and family are sick of hearing about it, no one knows how to help, I'm always sick to my stomach, sore and tired. You've been very helpful, I've tired ginger pills, chamomille tea, magnesium and lately vitamin C. I have to take 800 mg of ibuprofin 3 x's a day for my heart issue that mitrtazapine caused. I read the same thing about this being worse than heroine and I have no experience but the movies and I too believe them.
I'm ready for my life back. Did you end up on any other meds after mirtazipine? If not how do yo manage anxiety and depression if you still get it?
Thank-you so much for your wisdom and help.
I really feel for you. It's hard to stay positive when you feel so awful all the time. I've got to admit, there were a couple of times where I was seriously tempted to go back on the drug, but I knew that if I did that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself later on, and possibly have to go through it again.
DeleteI had a lot of people around me telling me to go back on the drug as they didn't like what they were seeing which made it a lot worse for me considering what my thoughts were..
What kept me going through the withdrawal was the memory of how awful the side effects were when I was on the drug - the constant thirst, the dry mouth, the jaw spasms etc etc..it was worse than the depression! My Doc told me I'd be on them for life, and there was no way I was going to put up with all that for life!
Also I made myself believe that the hell was only temporary, that it would get better..and little by little it did get better, and those inspired me to keep going.
Before I withdrew, I didn't see anyone one the internet that had succeeded in getting off the drug. That was scary, and it made me both angry and really sad. I'm a very determined person and I was fuelled even more to prove my Dr wrong (that I wouldn't have a complete mental collapse) and I wanted to prove that it could be done.
I wanted a life free of psychiatric meds. Apart from the very rare diazepam for emotional emergencies (or cramp!) I am not on any psychiatric medication.
I still get anxiety and depression sometimes and I've accepted that they're going to be around, but I control them by diet, meditation and exercise. I tend to get a bit lazy about the exercise bit, but I'm working on it! Life after mirtazapine was a huge learning curve and I had to explore new, healthier ways of coping.
Some situations in my life can make me depressed (even something as silly as a messy cluttered bedroom), but I have to work out what it is that is making me depressed, and do somethg to change it. There's usually a huge improvement after that!
Things WILL get better for you, I'm certain of it.. Just hang in there! It can be done!
Kerry x
Hi Kerry hi all
DeleteI'm 7 1/2 months out from my last benzo & 2 months from last dose of remeron which I was on for five months.
Being on the remeron since Jan/2014 helped me sleep the first month. Then I tried getting off it in feb but 9 days later it got ugly and reinstated 4 days after that to 1.87mg ,1/2 the prior dose I was on.
I was having problems with remeron mainly revving up after being on same dose for few weeks. I had to constantly reduce the dose until jumping off May31. The problem most likely was I found out through a gene test that I'm a slow metabolizer therefore the drug level would build up because of poor slow elimination.
I've been on this ride for months and at the awful level since end of April.
Being off the remeron is great but I suspect the symptoms of:
Crazy high anxiety
Fear
Depression
Desperation
Constant inner tension
Dizziness/vertigo
Headaches
Crying
Mental anguish
Tennitus
Shakiness
Etc.....
Is more remeron WD than any underlying benzo issues. Of coarse I may be wrong but with these sx mention and at the extreme level they present,I think it's more rem WD than benzo at this point.
My pdoc is a veteran which understands benzo WD and the lengthly time involved for recovery. He says double whammy , Im defiantly in rem WD as well as underlying benzo issues.
There are lots of pep here on this board that have gone through similar events and some have been able to get past the WD's in a few weeks, but the other half have suffered heavy 3-4 months for WD to subside. It's hard to think at this degree of WD that I might have another month or two to go!
Again I cant say for sure the misery is purely rem WD but it sure doesn't feel anything like my firsts few weeks off of benzos. Sometimes it gets so bad I think of taking a small rescue dose of ambien but then I realize everything I've put into this and setback that may bring.
The anxiety is so intense that I wonder everyday how I will pull through. I have been on a every other day cycle of one day torture the next tolerable but now it's most days bad. I walk every day drive work some but most of the time with difficulty.
Well that's my current situation. Any encouragement appreciated.
Thank you all, jrod
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I'm not alone, but when you are going through it it sure feels that way. The last 2 days I have felt my insides shaking constantly, my feeling sick has turned into throwing up, I feel all of the above but the WORST is the chest pain. I ahve only seen one other post mentioning chest pain, it's crushing. I was on 800mg of Advil 3's a day for this from a cardiologist, however have to discontinue due to kidney issues it's causing (add insult to injury) I'm in week 6 and was 'only' on mirtazipine for a month. How do you function like this? I cannot. My whole body shakes and hurts. I do still take clanozapam which is adding to the depression, but I could not handle another withdrawl right now as the first one landed me in the ER.
Please keep posting and supporting, not sure what to do. All I do is stay in bed as much as possible until that awful internal seizure feeling begins, try to get up and eat only to be sick, and then hunch over in pain as my chest feels like it's going to colapse. I've come off Effexor and this is by far the worst experience of my life. Neither my pdoc or family doc (on holidays for 2 weeks) will admit it's withdrawl.
Please keep the support coming, I don't know where to turn...
Hi everyone,
ReplyDeleteI'm also trying to get off Remeron. Slooooowly. What helps me is this book:
The Antidepressant Solution: A Step-by-Step Guide to Safely Overcoming Antidepressant Withdrawal, Dependence, and "Addiction"' - by Joseph Glenmullen
And this forum:
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/
Hope this help some of you too!
S
Can anyone tell me when the nauseousness will finally end? I was ill advised by my pdoc to quit 15mg cold turkey, my last dose was June 21st which puts me in week 6. It's too late to re-start and taper and on top of that I had and am still dealing with heart issues from the mirtazipine. Today out of nowhere my back is so sore I feel like it is going to seize. Has anyone else experienced this? I had an ok day yesterday, still shaky, nauseous, and heart irregulatities and palpitations, but I was functional. Today I had to make a trip to another dr involving 4 hrs of driving round trip and bang, everything is back full force.
ReplyDeleteSince I'm already in week 6 and cannot go back on the drug, any addition advice from new posters? I cannot live like this. I do take clanozapam to help, but some days I feel it makes it worse. Is this possible? Thank-you in advance.
Hi there,
DeleteSorry! Your comment went to the spam folder for some reason..(mental note to check spam folder more often!)
I hope you are feeling better.
I found travel sickness tablets good for nausea which helped me to eat more..it might be worth a try?
Has any one else found something that helps?
Kerry x
Hi I've been on this medication for a while and when they upped my dosage feels lie my Brain is frazzled it's hard to even describe the symptoms I asked th dr abou coming off it but I've been told to wait I've been thru withdrawls before I came on the medication so know what to expect
DeleteI posted a few days back, but it isn't here. When does the nauseousness subside? It's been 6 weeks now (feels like months) and I am constantly sick to my stomach. The other persistant symptoms are:
ReplyDeletedizziness
headaches
some disassociation
weakness
insides shaking (feels like an internal seziure)
Anxiety not helped by Clanozapam (I believe it makes it worse)
heart palpitations
crying constantly
shortness of breath
chest pain (slightly subsided thank God)
Can anyone comment on what point or what order these went away? Advice on how to manage? I realize I am asking a lot of the same questions over and over, I know there is no magic pill or solution, but I really want my life back.
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteSxs are different because of how long how much how long and how we metabolize.
I'm almost 10 weeks out and it's been the worse health exp of my life. I still get extreme anxiety headaches nausea fatigue, couple times a week this horrific depression that last from morning to night together with this crazy desperation, intrusive thoughts OCDing about never coming out of this, etc...
Just to name a few. I came off of 1mg! I started at 3.75 for sleep and was on it for 5 months. Many say thick of it can be between month 2&3. Most Resolving within 4 months.
I am desperate for this torture to subside! But we have to hang tight and remember that this is WD and this living hell will end! Below is an interesting link.
Good luck!
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/07/21/remeron-mirtazapine-withdrawal-symptoms-how-long-they-last/
This link really helped. Thank-you for posting. I am optimistic I an half way there now.
ReplyDeleteHang in there. I had a good morning...things are changing this afternoon, but I got a glimce of 'normal' for a few short hours.
How far out are you?
ReplyDelete6.5 weeks...15mg for one month.
ReplyDeleteI have just stopped Remeron 1 week ago after a five month use at 3.75 mg and a 1 month taper down to 1.8 mg and jumped from that dose. No symptoms for a week and then racing heart,tinnitus,insomnia, nausea,headache with muscle spasms,tingling sensation all over body. I have meditation apps, Calms Forte and medication for nausea and feel well armed to tackle the symptoms but I am fearing what the weeks ahead may bring. I feel hopeful reading these post just need to keep telling myself this to shall pass.
ReplyDeleteNurse 87, JRod, how are you doing? Seriously when will this end? I am most araid of the fact that I cannot eat. I keep losing weight...45 lbs in 5 months, I am so nauseous. Lat night the night sweats and insomnia returned, I thought they were long gone. My anxiety and depression are through the roof as I was also just recently diagnosed with Lyme disease. I don't know what symptom is what, all I know is there is currently nothing I can do but live in this misery. I'm scared, so sick, and really really need something to give. I pray to God to see just a glimse of light at the end of the tunnel.
ReplyDelete7 weeks out and only on it for a month! (15mg cold turkey mind you) Mornings are the worst, I can usually function from 7pm until bedtime. I hope you are both doing well and I'm holding on to 'this too shall pass', it has to and I really hope it's sooner than later. I couldn't even go back on the drug to try a taper as it nearly killed me on and off it.
Let's keep hanging in there, Kerry says it's possible to get off and stay off and all these side effects go away...
I believe you Kerry! This has been the hardest experience of my life (Lyme symptoms for 5 months haven't helped either) Keep posting!
How is everyone doing??
ReplyDeleteHi everyone!
DeleteThanks for getting in touch!
Unfortunately I was rushed in for emergency surgery 2 weeks ago so I've not been able to get back to you as much as I'd hoped:(
Mentally ok, but physically it'll be a while before I'm up to full speed. Still need to sleep a lot!
I just realised, it'll be 2 YEARS in November since I came off mirtazapine.
It's not been perfect or easy, but it is possible.
Hope you're all doing ok.
Kerry x x
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI hope you are ok and getting the rest you need. I'm 2 months out...the morning anxiety is still there but the nausea has subsided to a managable level thank God. I can eat! Very bland and simple, but enough to maintain and hopefully gain some weight soon. I still have depressed crying spells that are terrible and chest/back pain, not sure what that's all from, anxiety, angiogram, withdrawl, Lyme disease...all I know is the good day/bad day ratio is almost a t 50/50. That's not saying the good days are my norm, they are just manageable.
I am really suprised that more people haven't posted about chest pain. It's been my worst symptom. Anything you know about that would be great to hear. Take it easy and I pray this continues to get easier.
S
Hi S,
DeleteStill feeling very dodgy and not recovering as fast as I hoped. Picked up a nice little infection..probably because I am unable to slow down.
I've been ordered to take it easy...feels unnatural, but I'm trying!
How are you doing?
Love Kerry x
Anonymous : I'm going to name you the letter K. Be easier than typing anonymous and more personal. Hope u don't mind.
ReplyDeleteI'm 85 days out from remeron and few weeks shy of 9 months off of benzos.
I got to say that benzo WD is horrific, but 11 days off the remeron that's when the real nightmare began!
Few weeks ago I was on an every other day cycle of one day tolerable next day horrible. Last week or so it's been just awful most days. Started having lots of nausea dizziness headaches and no appetite. Then eventually it lets up for 6-10 hrs and that brings back some appetite.
Some on the benzo board I frequent seem to think its more the benzo causing the major issues, but even in the beginning stages of acute benzo WD, I never felt so dramatically depressed anxious dizzy anguish desperate.
Most people I've been in contact with that have made it through say they started feeling better after the 3rd and 4th month. So if I'm still struggling a month or two from now then I have to say benzos WD.
K I'm glad to hear your appetite is back and that your having some tolerable days!
Good luck , jrod
Hi Jrod,
DeleteI think it was about the 4 month mark when I noticed some of the side effects weren't as bad. Unfortunately (if I remember right) the full withdrawal took about nine months...but I was on it for over 6 years (sometimes 60mg, aargh!) and on anti-depressants/anti-psychotics for 16 years. It may have taken my body longer than average.
In a lifetime, the withdrawal is only temporary, and that thought kept me going:)
Kerry, I am reading your posts, as I am in the same boat as a lot of these. 7 years on 45, 1 year on 7.5, then cold turkey. That was three months ago. I am not as bad in some ways, but everything is subject to change from day to day. Reading your posts tells me that I can have a while to go, and it is normal for me. Thank You, David
DeleteYou can call me S...You didn't/haven't had any cardiac issues or chest pain?
ReplyDeleteGood for you hanging in there. I was just diagnosed with Lyme disease so I don't know what's what anymore. I don't ever want to take another anti-depresant ever again, but I am so depressed. Major crying spells, anxiety every morning. Zero quality of life...
Thanks for keeping the blog going, it helps to put things in perspective on really bad days.
Hope everyone is well.
S.
I know what you mean about anti depressants! I've got an advance directive saying no psychiatric drugs or ECT if I am ever admitted to hospital again.
ReplyDeleteThanks for reading the blog! It's you guys who keep me going!
At one point I considered deleting it as I thought it was too heavy and morbid, but I was persuaded not to!
S, hang in there:)
Love Kerry x
Hi guys, thanks for all your comments!
ReplyDeleteRecovery from my op is slow this end-really frustrating, but I hope to be more interactive soon.
Take care, and hang in there!
Will be back soon,
Kerry x
Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI hope you are well. Wanted to share this article that was released 6 weeks BEFORE I was prescribed Remeron and despite multiple attempts to tell both Dr's and Nurses that I was having an irregular heart beat, they insisted I stay on it.
http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2014/38711a-eng.php
Please share with anyone you know considering or on Mirtazipine with a heart condition.
S
Hey Kerry thks for the link. Mirtz along with all theses psych drugs have truly damaged so many lives.
ReplyDeleteI'm 4 months off the mirtz and some things are getting better but hardly noticeable. I know you mention 5 months and I'm going too hold u on that! (Just kidding).
I most likely am withdrawing from benzos which i cold turkey dec of 2013.
My doctor says I'm dealing with a double whammy of withdrawal. Lot of the benzo pep say its benzos and that mirtz WD should be only 10% but I still have a feeling it's my major problem. Still in the cycle of one day good next day hell. From anxiety to depression to hopelessness mental anguish and that feeling of losing your mind and never healing.
Hope everyone else have entered the comfort stages of healing. Jrod
What a relief to read these comments. I am a 'experienced' anti-depressant taker but came off of 10 tablets 2 years ago (cold turkey)/ I emigrated and it was a life transition but I did not sleep, I was exhausted so finally relinquished to my Dr and started taking 15mg of Mirtz, (eating like a possessed woman) going up to 30mg after a few months, more eating. I suffer with restless legs syndrome and notice on the 30mg that the Mirtz might be making this worse. But I still wasn't sleeping so my dr upped the Mirtz to 45mg. I felt so tired all the time and it definitely made my legs more restless, I used to pace the room all night while watching TV. So I made a decision to come off cold turkey 6 weeks ago. I know they say don't, but a lot of these Drs have never been on these drugs - we become the experts don't we? For the first few weeks I was fine, THEN, what seemed like gastro for weeks, nausea, and the anxiety. My housemate thought I was going crazy, I become paranoid about everything, irrational thoughts and didn't want to go out. I physically shock all the time. I have just flown a long haul flight and if it wasn't for the people I sat next to me, I would have cried all the way. Convinced it was my plane that would be the one to crash. The gastro (won’t go into detail with that) is easing up, but now I have headaches, nothing seems to be working to get rid of these. My thirst is also crazy......But I’m happier, I have much more energy and have in fact started to feel better. I started taking melatonin for my sleeping (don't sell in the UK) so I order from the states. On this tablet I get 6 hours a night. So I go to bed quite late and wake up about 6am....its ok. Recently a lot of the time I am falling asleep without anything, but wake up too early. I wish they would prescribe valium in the UK. Doctors here don't like to give anything out that is addictive. If they understood the terrible withdrawal symptoms they might just give me valium! There is hope and life after Mirtz. Was wondering if anyone had a dry cough and tingling in their jaw and chin?? Odd question I know.
ReplyDeleteOnly been on 30mg for three months but recently stopped because I felt better and I am now finding I get very angry easily. I am also constantly tired and anxious and getting suicidal thoughts back. Having read the above posts maybe a should persevere or have a harder time getting off them if I go any longer on them.
ReplyDeleteHi. I have been off mirtrazipine for just over four weeks. I was on 30mg for about eight months and felt it was time to come off them. I did a slow taper over a period of four months and took my last tablet four weeks ago. I felt great for the first ten days then I started to feel nauseous and lost my appetite. I have awful upper back pain that comes and goes and tingling stinging skin all over my body. Sleep is difficult so I take half a piriton to help. It's helped me reading this thread because I really thought that I should be over it by now but just when I think I am I hit a brick wall. My doctor is very supportive but I agree that they really don't know enough about withdrawal. I don't regret taking the tablets they saved my life and some days when withdrawal is bad I am so tempted to go back on them but after reading your comments I will persevere! I wish you all luck and success. Ljw
ReplyDeleteHi everyone,
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your comments! How are you all doing? Hope things are looking up:)
All well this end. I've not written much on the blog lately - I'm "supposedly" writing my memoir but find it hard to get going! I'll get there in the end!
Take care,
Kerry x x
Hello Kerry, My name is Tina and I have been on remeron for 6 months. I recently reduced from 45 to 15 to 7.5. After reading many posts from others I am very frightened to jump off. I weigh about 100 lbs. And am so scared of losing anymore weight. I am also scared of not sleeping. My proc put me on seriquil 50 mg and nerotnin. I am scared to take the seriquil due to the fact that i do not want to rely on anything else. I have the shakes terribly and am always extremely dizzy. I feel that I'm falling apart and I haven't even gotten to the worst of the withdrawl phase. I am very scared. Any help or support would be appreciated.
ReplyDeleteThank you,
Tina
Hi Tina,
DeleteI'm so sorry you're having such a terrible time. I remember when I got to 7.5mg, I felt I could sleep all the time! It was weird!
Has your Doctor told you to come off it, or was it your own choice?
How long did you go from 45-7.5? It sounds like it's been quite quick! The longer the tapering off is, the less the withdrawal will be - I did mine over several months, it if I had my time again, knowing what I do now, I would have done it over a year or more..
Keep energy drinks around and have lots of milky protein shakes if you're worried about weight loss - they were a godsend for me.. If your appetite goes, just little bits here and there will help.
Hang in there Tina,
if you get insomnia, valerian tea is great (it totally stinks, but it's good!)
Let me know how it goes,
Love Kerry x x x
Also, I would like to have updates from anyone else. Please please!
ReplyDeleteHi Kerry, thanks for your response. It is greatly appreciated. I was put on 45 for depression and my anxiety has become worse, through the roof! So my doc said I need to come off. He took me from 45 to 15 to 7.5 within the last month. Which I think is kind of fast. For the first few weeks I couldn't drive I was so out of it. I love your story thanks for sharing. I don't have good support. My husband and dad think I'm just over exaggerating things which does not help.
ReplyDeleteAgain any support or help throughout this process is much appreciated.
Thanks Tina
Any updates
ReplyDeleteHi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI am now 4 months free of Remeron. I had been on 45 mg. for several years, but had been on it in total for almost 10 years. I did a fairly gradual reduction, taking 14 months to get off it. It's taken an unbelievable commitment and determination to shoulder on through the withdrawal effects.
A number of things helped enormously with the process. One was that I started doing qi gong a few months before I started reducing my dose. It's basically a form of moving meditation (sitting still is often not much of an option during withdrawal). It helped with both physical and emotional symptoms and I still continue to practice at least an hour a day. I did this free one for a long time and found some immediate and long-term benefits from it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-jSBBwr8Ko
I've also done daily meditation and/or guided imagery. I find taking even 15 or 20 minutes in the afternoons makes a huge difference to both mood and energy levels..and also, helps me to sleep better at night. I often listen again before I go to sleep.
Exercise has become my friend in terms of helping to deal with anxiety or lift mood. It's especially important for me to be outside as much as possible...
For nausea, I took Gravol initially, but also found ginger or peppermint tea beneficial..or even ginger lozenges made by Gravol.
Remeron (and other antidepressants) deplete the enzyme that helps digest foods that contain histamine (dairy, wheat, berries, tomatoes, avocado and many other things). It also acts as an antihistamine..so when you come off, it is common to have a rebound effect. I have greatly reduced foods in my diet containing histamine and that also made a pretty big difference in many of the physical symptoms.
I now try to stay away from any drugs as much as is reasonably possible. Since coming off the remeron, I often find that nearly all drugs later result in a rebound effect...where feeling better is only very temporary, often followed by an even worsening effect.
I've worked with a naturopath, who primarily does homeopathy..but also gives IV vitamins, which I found to be of great benefit. I'm only able to take a limited number of supplements post-remeron and know that the whole process has been pretty depleting...never mind months of digestive issues from withdrawal. The IV vitamins (known as a Meyer's cocktail) go straight into the blood. They have provided great relief from aches and pains, moods, low energy, and poor sleep.
I'd like to be able to say I'm over withdrawal, but I'm not. The past month, there's been a temporary worsening of symptoms again. I'm sleeping, but keeping strange hours..more mood swings, more fatigue, more digestive issues, more sneezing, more aches and pains.
Still, I would NEVER go back on this drug or any other AD. In this process, I also managed to wean myself off other drugs I was on (asthma, acid reflux, allergies, pain meds, diabetes). I'm going to have to be seriously convinced of a need to take any drugs over a long term again. Remeron ruined my health..and it's a very long road back to regaining it.
I wish everyone an easier journey than I've had.
Judy
Judy, thank you for your post. I am almost at 4 months, and still having awful days. A lot of the same symptoms that you describe in your rebound days. I can identify with Remeron ruining your health, and I can already see that it is going to be a long time before I feel normal again. My main issues are digestive problems, fatigue, vertigo, headaches, and allergy symptoms. I had a decent day yesterday, but today has been awful. I realize that your post was 6 months ago, But I am replying on the chance that you may see it, or it may benefit someone else. David
DeleteJudy,
DeleteThanks for sharing your experiences, I know it's been a while since you wrote, it sounds like you are doing all the right things for you, and I hope you are feeling better than you were:)
Kerry x x
Hi David,
DeleteI'm sorry to hear about your suffering. I hope it helps knowing at least, that you are not alone in it. Recovering from these meds can be a long process for some of us. I'd suggest you check out the "low histamine chef" for suggestions on diet. She recovered from psych meds and a mast cell issue through diet, yoga, meditation and hypnosis. I know it's tough to look at diet when you feel horrible, but it's been key for many of us in recovery. Same for some form of relaxation--meditation, tai chi, yoga, whatever works for you.
There is also a lot of information on "surviving antidepressants" site. It's a way to get support for what you're going through, as well as gain knowledge on what has helped different people.
Hang in there...it does get better..though it's a very up and down journey for many of us. I am doing much better than when I posted last on here. Allergy issues are much less, I'm resting better, have more energy, have good mood for the most part (better than it ever was on Remeron), and am able to exercise much more than I was. Physical pain is probably the most predominant thing still in terms of muscles and joints. Pain medication does nothing, or worse, causes more pain...so, I'm left to more natural ways of coping with it.
Thanks for answering back Kerry...I have no doubts that I'm on the path I need to be on...and more certain than ever I would never take another psych med.
Thanks to every one of you for the encouragement. I am at 12 weeks and was worried that something else was causing the symptoms. Now I see that you just need to ride it out and have faith that I'll get there!
ReplyDeleteDLB
Hi DLB,
DeleteThanks for getting in touch:)
What kept me going was the knowledge that the withdrawal was only temporary.
I seemed to hit bad spells at the 3/6/9 month marks.... Weird!
It might take a lot longer than you hoped, but it will get better.
I'm 2.5 years off the drug now and it's as if I was never on it.
I think it took a year for all of the withdrawal to end.
I still get digestive troubles but this may also be linked to my anorexic/bulimic past.
Hang in there!!
Love Kerry x
Kerry, thank you so much. I honestly think that a big part of the anxiety, at least for me, is seeing all these folks talking about being over the symptoms at two or three months, and here I am going on 4 months and still having awful days. And now that I see someone like you, who has obviously been through it, being up front with the facts with regard to withdrawal time gives me a little peace and comfort with regard to just accepting each day as it comes. I had a good afternoon and evening yesterday, and woke this morning feeling awful. Also, I haven't seen this WD symptom anywhere else, but I have shortness of breath due to anxiety and bloated colon spasms. I have been to the ER and my pulmonary doctor, and everything tested OK. I have a Oximeter that show the blood oxygen at 97-99%, but I feel like I have walked up a flight of steps sometimes. Anyway, thank you so much for your response. David
DeleteDavid,
DeleteI can't emphasize enough the possible connection to histamine issues, when going off this drug. As mentioned above, check out the low histamine chef. There are many symptoms tied to this, including digestive issues, breathing problems, nasal allergies, sleep issues, emotional issues, fatigue, physical pain..the list is very long. Because of the broad range of symptoms, a person can get labelled with psych issues and end up back on drugs...or end up on a cocktail of other meds. Diet can do a lot towards healing this....it's key for many people trying to come off antidepressants and other psych meds.
Judy
You're welcome David, :)
ReplyDeleteI hope the spasms ease off soon - they don't sound very nice! Do muscle relaxants help with those? Even camomile or valerian, or even mint teas?
Hang in there, it will get better eventually.
Kerry x
Kerry, can new symptoms appear months into withdrawal? I am having night sweats, not bad, but I have never had them before. I quit cold turkey February 27, after almost 8 years at 45mg. I had colon/stomach cramps yesterday, all the way to bedtime. I am not at 4 months yet, and don't want to sound like a cry baby, but this is really taking its toll. I guess I am paying a premium for the cold turkey stop. David
DeleteHi David, It sounds like you are paying the price for going cold turkey - I really feel for you - mine was bad enough after a 6 month taper off.
ReplyDeleteIf it gets unbearable (and this might not be what you want!) but try taking even a minute dose, like 7.5mg or 3.75mg just to relieve it a bit.
There was a few times it was so awful I wanted to give up - it was recommended to me to try the small dose but I refused and wanted nothing more to do with the drug.
In my mind I saw withdrawal like an illness in its own right which made it easier, but it is a case of waiting it out. Do you have a good relationship with your pharmacist? They might be able to suggest things that ease your symptoms...they will see this withdrawal side of things much more than doctors will..
Yes, I did experience new symptoms later into the withdrawal - as late as 6 months in which I thought was odd..but nothing about that period was normal!
hang in there, and I hope you feel better soon..
Kerry :)
Kerry, you mentioned weight loss, and that you haven't gained it back. At what point did you stop losing. I am at 25 pounds, and am still slowly losing. My appetite is still about non-existent and I pretty much have to force myself to eat. David
DeleteHi David, unfortunately I can't remember when I stopped losing weight, but it was several months anyway, actually it was probably over 6 months. The loss was rapid at first, but tapered off. My appetite took probably 9 months to get back to normal, but I combatted the weight loss by drinking lots of those build up drinks. I drank 3 or more a day, and I tried things like cheese, chocolate and avocado..things with lots of calories but not a lot of food. Things like full fat milk and yogurts were good too. Not the healthiest of things, but in such unusual circumstances it was necessary. It's such a weird feeling not having any appetite isn't it?..forcing's not nice, but little and very often is good! Kerry
DeleteKerry, thanks for the reply. I can't eat chocolate, and I am lactose intolerant. So the weight gain items are not an option. I just wanted to know when the weight loss should stop. I have gone from 200 to 175 in 5 months. Thanks, David
DeleteHi all, I quit mirt 2 weeks ago and am having a terrible time. I had been on 30mg for 6 mths but was struggling with side effects. The worst being chest pain hich developed 3 mths into treatment. Anyway I took the desicion to go cold turkey and the first 10 days were bearable but the last 4 days have been a nightmare. The chest pain is intense and along with a feeling of tightness and pressure my chest feels like it could implode. I have hot sweats, cold sweats, I tremble. I'm nauseous and have no appeite. I just wanted to thank everyone here for reassuring me that I'm not about to die.
DeleteHi everyone,
ReplyDeleteI received a request through the online contact from from Baret who would like your suggestions
Here it is:
Dear All,
I have reduced from 45mg to 30mg after only 6 weeks on mirtazapine. Four weeks into the reduction and I'm still a wreck. I feel like my psychological resistance is worn down. Anyone have similar experiences? I haven't quit this drug. I've just reduced the dose. Are these still withdrawals or some adverse reaction? My shrink is no help.
Regards,
Baret
Most doctors and shrinks have no idea about how to reduce these drugs..and deny that withdrawal exists, except in rare circumstances. It sounds like you are experiencing withdrawal. What is recommended is no more than a 10% reduction every 4-6 weeks. If you reduce again, it is 10% of your current dose, not of the original dose. Even small reductions can produce big effects on the nervous system, especially for some people.
DeleteJudy
When reducing Mert, remember that the lower the dosage the more sedating effect it has. I was on 15mg a day and was comatose until early evening the next day before it lifted. I then tapered to 7.5mg which had an even more sedating effect. It was he'll at that point. It's now been 6 or 7 weeks that I've been off of the drug altogether and I have many of the same symptoms that all of you on this blog have but I am bound and determined to run the course of withdrawal and get my life. ack!
DeleteKerry, were you still having bad days at 4 months? I don't want to go back on the Remeron, but with days like today, it is hard. I feel weak, and generally sick, and still have GI issues and nausea. Yesterday wasn't as bad. I slept soundly last night, and woke feeling awful. Also, have lost 2 more pounds.
ReplyDeleteDavid
Dear David,
DeleteI'm sorry you're feeling so awful:(
I was still having bad days at 4 months...I'd sort of forgotten what it was like to be normal. Gradually over time I started having one or two good days, and they got more frequent.
If it gets worse, I'd consider just taking a very small dose which will reduce your physical symptoms and then try again a few weeks down the line. Sorry - I'm not being much help!
I hope you feel better soon.
Kerry
Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI think it's great that you have put your story out there. I'd like to suggest a resource to people who find their way here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/ It's a community of people who are coming off antidepressants and other psych meds. There are very knowledgeable moderators as well. It's a way to get information and support to come off drugs safely and with fewer side effects.
Doctors and psychiatrists are typically not a reliable resource for how to get off antidepressants. They seem to be in complete denial of withdrawal and will often tell patients they have "relapsed" and need to get back on drugs. Antidepressants may have their place, but they are widely over-prescribed and not well monitored. There are many good alternatives, if people are willing to put in some effort. The public has been sold a bill of goods on the chemical imbalance theory...something the drug companies promoted, but has zero evidence.
Judy
Dear Judy, thanks for the link - it looks really great and I wish I'd come across it when I was going through my own withdrawal.
DeleteDo you mind if I include it in my Mirtazapine withdrawal posts so that others can find it without scrolling through dozens of posts?
Best wishes,
Kerry
I think that would be great for you to do that Kerry. It could potentially help a lot of people. I wish I'd found it earlier...but it has been of a lot of help to me..and an opportunity for me to support others.
DeleteJudy
Kerry, how long did your fatigue / weakness last? I am at a little over 4 months and still feel weak. David
ReplyDeletehello, I was just wondering how everyone on this chat is going. I was on Mirt for 2 years and have stopped completely 3 weeks ago. I wasnt warned about any side effects, so after 2 weeks when they kicked in I was really scared I was relapsing and didnt know what was happening. But I can see now after reading other peoples awful experience that withdrawal is real and the list of symptons is massive. The insomnia is the worst thing for me, but the sickness, chills, tummy upsets, feeling completely exhausted is still really hard to deal with. And I guess what makes it 100 worse is not knowing how long this can go on for. My doctor thinks I should go back on the drug??
DeleteHi Ali,
DeleteThanks for getting in touch! I'm sorry you're having a rough time. From my own experience and others that have been in touch, the withdrawal symptoms could go on for a while yet.
I get angry when doctors don't tell their patients what to expect. Mirtazapine has a terrible reputation for withdrawal symptoms, but many doctors either believe that there are genuinely no side effects, or don't want to believe there is. They should be preparing their patients adequately for a withdrawal. Sorry! Rant over!
Going cold turkey is probably the worst thing you can do... If you find it too unbearable, go back on the drug and taper off no less than six months..ideally longer. The longer your tapering off, and the longer you're on the absolute minimum dose the easier the withdrawal should be.
I've had people contact me who had such a terrible time that they went back on the drug, but I've had others say they were switched on to another antidepressant which helped the withdrawal, and didn't have as many side effects as Mirtazapine.
Best wishes,
Kerry x
Hi David,
DeleteLooking back, it's hard to remember. I'm kicking myself now for not keeping a more thorough withdrawal diary - I never realised how useful it might be.
I think by the six month mark there was a significant improvement in energy levels. Saying that, my sleep took a good 9 months to a year to get back to normal, and I often felt the effects from the insomnia.
Everyone is different though, and what I had might not be the same for you.
Hang in there. It will get better.
Kerry :)
Kerry, how much weight did you lose, and about how long into the process did you level off? I am at 7 months, stopped cold turkey after 8 years at 45 mg and a year at 7.5. Still having abdominal cramps and appetite issues. I have lost over 30 pounds, and still slowly losing. I have been to the Emergency Room several times, and had 2 abdominal CT scans, and one of the brain, and those and all blood tests have been normal. Just wanted to be sure it was withdrawals. I had no idea that you would have withdrawals from prescription medicine! Thanks for any reply, David
ReplyDeleteDear David,
DeleteWell done on getting to the 7 month mark! That's great! I think I must have lost about 30lbs...which on my skinny frame was very noticeable... but it took place very rapidly in the first few months then slowly tapered off. I really didn't feel like it but for months I was FORCING myself to drink full fat milk and milkshakes with cream and coconut oil in, yoghurts, avocados and fortified buildup drinks which slowed the loss down. Not very healthy but I figured trying to maintain a weight was more important.
Somebody once said to me that when people came off Mirtazapine, they lost the same amount of weight as they put on when they were put on the drug...
I don't know if that's true or not....but for me, I put on about 30lbs when I went on the drug, and lost it when I came off.. that might just be chance though!!
Can you remember how much you weighed before you went on the drug? Are you less than that now?
I was so shocked at the severity of the withdrawal - it's been described as worse than heroin and I truly believe that! But it was so physical! - A drug for mental health?! It's pretty frightening..
I think I felt fully 'sorted out' after about a year. I'm still slightly underweight and am unable to put weight on easily - but all my family are the same. I've been working out more the last 8 months, and I've noticed that has really stimulated my appetite! I'm hoping to bulk up more in muscle and do it that way.
Best wishes,
Let me know how it goes
Kx
Kerry, I was having side effects, the drug had pretty much stopped working, and one of the side effects was that it aggravated a heart issue that I have. I asked my PCP if I could come off the drug, and he said sure. His taper was immediately go from 45 to 30, stay on 30 for 2 weeks, go to 15, stay on 15 for 2 weeks and stop. This was after being on 45 mg for 8 years. That was 45 - 0 in one month. Needless to say, in about a week, I thought that I was going to die. Most of my symptoms were GI, and I didn't even realize that I was in withdrawals. I called my GI doc, but she only put me back on 7.5. I helped a little with sleep, but that was about all. I was still withdrawing, as I was now 37.5 mg less than I was on.
ReplyDeleteFor the following year I felt pretty bad, lost my appetite, and started losing weight. I was scared as I didn't know what to expect. By the end of the 12 months since the first fiasco, I had decided that if my doctor thought that I could go from 45 - o in one month, I should be able to stop 7.5 without too much trouble. So I went cold turkey off the 7.5 February 27th, without calling my doctor. I had already lost weight the previous 12 months, not realizing why, and hadn't gained any of it back. After a few days, full blown withdrawals with every symptom in the book. I got online, found a few forums, yours was the best info that I found, and found out why I was feeling so bad, and what to expect. Several times I have thought seriously, as you said that you did, about going back on the drug, but then remembered why, with the help of my wife, that I had come off them. So, the weight loss, loss of appetite started all over again at a point where I had already lost about 20 pounds. I have lost over 30 this time, so that is about 50 in the last 19 months, through 2 withdrawals from the same drug, plus, I am still sick from it, and having a hard time with the appetite / weight / eating thing. I am, like you had said that you were at one point, at about my high school weight, 165 at 6 ft. My heaviest was 220, but I was overweight then, and wanted to drop about 20 pounds. Be careful what you ask for.
Anyway, that is where I am, and still sick from the last one. 7 months and still fighting it every day. Thank you for your reply, and for creating this site. It has helped more than you know. By the way, I will be 62 October 2, so bulking up probably won't be much of a choice for me. At this point, hardly enough butt to keep my jeans up, which are 34 waist down from 38. Take Care, David
Dear David, Sorry for the late replied - I got married 3 weeks ago and not quite come back to earth yet. I'm glad this post has helped you. It makes it all the more worthwhile for me that somebody has got benefit from it. It'll be 3 years next month since I came off the drug(!) It seems like an age ago and don't regret it at all. In a way, I wish I'd kept a more thorough diary of what I went through during the withdrawal, and for how long - I never realised at the time how useful it might be. But I felt so ill then that it wasn't possible to do it. I hope things ease up soon. Have you access to a dietician who might prescribe buildup drinks? There was a lot of hassle in my case which I can't remember and they wouldn't prescribe them to me, but my friend gave me loads after her father passed away, and they really helped. Good luck - hang in there!
DeleteBest wishes,
Kerry
Warum natürliche Nootropika?
ReplyDeleteEs wird darüber noch nicht viel gesprochen aber Gehirndoping ist in Deutschland schon ein riesiges Thema.
if this post is still active - hello Kerry & fellow commenters, with whom I share nothing but a mutual hate for Remeron - found this on Google (I Googled Mirtazapine withdrawal or something) & periodically check as I reach my monthly withdrawal "milestones" but first time commenting.
ReplyDeleteI first got on Remeron/Mirt some time earlyish last year, owing to a change of doc where I got a horrid one who decided that Remeron would be a convenient way of merging the effects of a benzo & SSRI into one med, who even does that ?! Combinations work for a reason damnit. But I was new to meds then & pretty naïve, so ..
Long story short, irresponsible doctor left & thankfully I'm now in the hands of someone better, although I had to practically BEG her to let me switch out from Remeron (cue me going on & on how it made me put on abt 1 stone/14 pounds/7kg in THREE MONTHS & how half my wardrobe couldn't fit. This was met by her insistence that I was being young-adulty & that at her age, body image issues matter much less. No idea/can't remember how she eventually relented & took me off, but THANK GOD she did) - but yeah. Height & weight measured at every appointment so I wasn't just being whiny/irrational, it was evidenced lol.
Cue terrible withdrawal insomnia bcos she made me withdraw in 2 weeks (I wasn't on much, just 7.5mg but it was horrid enough), where I googled & realised it should be 10% per week. I ended up quartering my pills till they ran out, which I took my last bit this May, several months after I was supposed to have been completely off. Never told her this though. I'm still fine. Just less fat lol. So technically my doc withdrew me completely from 7.5mg in a freaking fortnight but I "illegally" stuck on to a more gradual taper for 5? months.
The first week (like 3 days later, not immediate) was horrid, would find myself in a combination of cold sweats & very bad gastric (#horridcombi), curled up on my kitchen floor. Generally gastric is shit bcos it hurts to eat but eating is the only way to make your insides act on the food & not yr stomach walls so ..
4.5 months later & I still successfully kept abt 5.5 to 6kg off (the rest being daily fluctuations of the usual - lack of exercise, healthy eating day vs buffet day vs busy-forgot-proper-lunch-day kinda normal stuff) - again, documented at appointments.
But I find myself ... phobic that I am unable to have a good sleep without sleep aids? I used to have Lorazepam (loved it!) but that ran out, & now I have Zopiclone, which on the contrary I hate haha. So I've taken to occasionally (illegitimately) using anti-histamines (Chlorpheniramine), & using Zopiclone only when I'm desperate cos I hate that metallic tasting thing. I'm quite sure the withdrawal effects probably thinned out to some extent by now but it's mostly a psychological fear heh.
Within the past fortnight I've found myself sleeping soundly enough to dream like I used to (hooray deep sleep!), can't remember if I took some form of sleep aid, probably did. I'm not sure if I'm hindering myself by using sleepy medicine to aid but HEY I need sleep for energy to .. do Life lol. If anyone has any experience - are sleep aids more help or hindrance while ironing out Remeron-induced sleep issues?!
Also finding that I have very weird sleep habits now (I wouldn't call it early morning waking, cos it's more like waking early, only to fall asleep again & wake much later. Like wake before 7, fall asleep an hour later & wake up maybe 11 ?!), & that my body is inclined to sleep less, which I kind of hate.
I'm going around in circles, but point being -
1. Remeron sucks.
2. Remeron withdrawal (processes) suck(s) but OMG getting off is so WORTHIT
3. I want to be able to sleep properly again lol - how long does it take to regain normal sleep habits?
4. In the meantime are sleepy meds more help or hindrance ?!
thanks all! x
- Dee
Hi Dee,
DeleteI would recommend staying away from other drugs, or at least, using them as little as possible. The nervous system tends to be overly sensitized for most of us coming off meds...and other things can have more intense effects. Some people find they more easily become addicted to other drugs as well.
There are many good meditations on the internet or using an app as Kerry suggested. I'm not sure if I posted this above, but I started doing qi gong before I began tapering. I've had far fewer problems with sleep than most people coming off Remeron. This is the qi gong I started off with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-jSBBwr8Ko . He also has one for sleep that I've used successfully..but at the beginning, I found it kind of stimulating.
For most of us, the fight/flight response is in overdrive when we come off the meds. It's tricky finding the right balance of things to help in setting that right. But in general, milder exercise can often be better at the beginning, as well as seeding relaxing times throughout the day. If you do a lot of stimulating things all day long, then it's going to be hard to rest.
I've found it's been necessary to find a routine, and then alter it, as things change. For a long while, it meant turning all the electronics and lights off early...and for a period of time, the opposite seemed to work. I got into a pattern of falling asleep early and waking way too early...so, walking at dusk helped to correct that for the fall/winter last year. It takes a commitment and willingness to respond to changes..and often, seeking out new and different ways to cope with the changes.
Eating a steady healthy diet, regular exercise, qi gong, meditation, and really listening to my body have been absolutely key for me. Even if you can't sleep at night, continuing to do meditation will bring some rest. Try not to get in panic about it, because that only increases the stress on the nervous system. For me, reducing histamine in my diet was really important to decreasing the sleep difficulties. But the thing is, we are all different, and need to find our own "medicine".
Still, if you want to really be off meds...then finding non-drug ways of coping with symptoms is very important. Kerry posted the surviving antidepressants website above..there is a lot of good information on that site. Best of luck to you.
Judy
Hi Dee!
ReplyDeleteMirtazapine: Seriously scary drug. I can understand the sleep stuff - that was the part which caused the most destruction, and unfortunately took over a year to get back to normal:( I was so excited to dream naturally again as my brain was healing.
I had to relearn a whole new sleep routine - mirtazapine conked me out so much that I would sleep 12 hours a night on it, but there was a lot of tinkering with going to bed times when I came off it - if I went to bed at ten, I'd wake at 3 and that was me, but if I went to bed at 11, I'd wake at 7...It was weird! I did find sleep hypnosis apps really useful - the one I used was by Glenn Harrold (relax and sleep well [I think it's called!]) It really helped with sleep, and also with general confidence. Valerian tea was also good, I used 2 teabags in an inch of boiling water, left to stew for 5 minutes. Tastes disgusting, but works great after about an hour.
I wasn't really prescribed sleepy meds - I asked my dr. for them but he refused which seemed stupid as he was perfectly happy to hand them out before. It might be better to try avoid them... have you experimented with going to the gym and doing a hard workout just before bed.... That can make me more sleepy, but occasionally it wakes me up.
My sleep is almost normal now, but I do have insomniac phases from time to time.
As I said before, getting back to normal took over a year. Once you've found a bed time pattern that sort of works, try sticking to it and doing a nightly ritual of winding down with a book/bath or shower. Try avoid technology after 8pm as the blue light in the screen can keep you awake. If you need to nap during the day, - no more than 10 mins max or you'll wreck that night's sleep!
It's 3 years next month since I got off the drug. The dr. who told me I'd be on them for life still can't believe it!
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - got married 3 weeks ago, and think I've slept most of that!
Good luck and I hope your sleep sorts itself out.
Kerry x x
Kerry, congrats on your marriage! I wish you a life of happiness and health. God bless you both!
ReplyDeleteDavid
Thanks David! That's very kind:)
DeleteHi Kerry,
ReplyDeletecongrats on marriage! :-) & no worries at all, I just saw this (belated reply too, in part not knowing if this blog was still active to expect a response, haha. Then after awhile I forgot abt it)
Hmm thanks for sharing - wow I daren't imagine 3 years off (congratulations on this, too) as yet! I guess I'll take one step at a time, looking forward to half a year off in mid Nov for now :-) & yes, I note your feedback that tackling it from a diet/food perspective would be more helpful (long term) than popping MORE meds - I'll be mindful to maybe try chamomile/lavender tea. I remembered trying this sporadically with Twinings Chamomile being rather effective .. but sometimes I'm really too lazy to just boil a kettle of water to make tea - gonna keep that in mind for routine (-:
& yup noted about minimizing electronic device use as well, that's gonna take some discipline too cos after a day of work .. all I want to do is scroll Facebook and/or Like all my friends' food posts on instagram, lol. & about naps - I occasionally found myself crashing into an afternoon nap (unintentionally) on Sunday afternoons, wasn't actually too bothered haha cos I kind of viewed it as a sleep debt repayment for the prior week of not-so-stellar sleep instead!
thanks again for sharing & I'll try some of these things, hope they work! Looking forward to my 3-year anniversary too hahaha even if it's abit far off to think abt now.
- Dee xx
Hi Dee,
DeleteGood to hear from you! Yup, my blog is still active. I'm tending not to post new things now as I'm working on a memoir which takes up all my mental energy, plus I feel I've run out of things to say! But I'm always happy to answer any questions people have.
Well done on getting as far as you have! That's great! Day by day is the best way to take it, and sometimes there'll be days where it seems like you've gone backwards... but hang in there!
Love Kerry xx
Hiiii,
ReplyDeleteBack again (I see I am not the only one to have made this comment though haha but still) -
Another Problem- I said before that the horror of Mirtazapine/Remeron made me put on 7kg/14 pounds/a stone within 3 months - which was horrifying & my clothes couldn't fit. That I would burst out of them and half my wardrobe was like, nope. Then it dropped off effortlessly. It melted off. I was happy! ...for a little while.
Because now I'm realising (since .. Sept?) that 2 months after reaching my pre-Mirt weight, my clothes don't fit AGAIN, this time in the opposite direction, finding myself losing more weight even after reaching pre-Mirt weight. It's .. documented evidence from appt slips haha. Within the past month, I found myself buying a dress, which was one size smaller than compared to last Christmas (same brand, same range, same shop ..!) Even then the smaller size was also a little .. roomy haha. & realising I could wear a Tshirt that my 13-year-old self once wore for school, I wasn't a very tall or very big 13-year-old.
I don't think it is unhealthy (yet) because I thinkkk it is still a healthy enough weight that has not deprived me of a period (yet) .. but yes, now I find all my clothes hanging loose off me, & wearing belts with all my pants .. fastened into the innermost hole. Should have asked this earlier (& not when my next appt with my doc is like - in a week #oops) but - what do I do now, how do I stop any more weight loss! >_<
I find myself telling myself to deliberately eat more at meals/find excuses to eat more chocolate (this part is fun .. until I realise it's so unhealthy & bad for the throat haha) etc but I doubt that's working (yet!?!?!) ..
I'm starting to grow frustrated, for multiple reasons -
1. Clothes that don't fit are never fun, regardless too big or too small
2. I'm afraid that my doc/family/friends might suspect that I have some sort of eating disorder (yup. That's why am terrified for next appt, gah). Especially if I go below BMI 18. Thankfully not yet, haha phew.
3. I'm afraid that this weight loss might truly spark an ED(!!)
I mean. Surely 1 kg/2 pounds a fortnight isn't normal !??!! (Or is it !?)
helpppp. When will this level off & how can I stave it in the meantime? I think I was BMI 21-something at my past appt, thankfully ..
- Dee x
Hi Dee, I can understand your fears and frustrations. You could try stuffing in more calories - tell your doctor your concerns and ask for build up drinks that have lots of calories. If your doctor won't do that, go to the pharmacy and get slimfast or something similar and try having the shakes as additional snacks throughout the day. You could try supplementing your diet with avocados, nuts and coconut oil (I put it in my porridge/eat it straight out of the jar!) full fat milk/yoghurts/cream/cheese.... If you are nauseous, try a medicine that stops that, and it might make it easier to eat. Alternatively, there's an option I never took - when I complained to my doc of the weight loss, she said there was a medication given to chemotherapy patients who'd lost their appetite....I think it was a kind of steroid but I don't remember, but it was an appetite stimulant. I decided against it due to side effects, but if it's getting in to critical mode, it might be worth a try. Ginger is also good for stimulating the appetite - try herbal teabags or fresh ginger grated into boiling water. Ideally first thing on an empty tummy.
DeleteI hope these help. I found coconut oil and avocados to help plus 3-5 build up drinks day helped slow things down. It's not easy eating when you really don't want to.
I think my appetite took a year to settle down but it was gradual....so gradual I almost didn't notice it was back. My sleep took much longer to get back to normal. If you can, try not to nap longer than 10 mins a day. It's tempting to try catch up a bit, but it will muck things up a bit. Hang in there and let me know how you get on.
Kerry x x
Hi Kerry -
ReplyDeleteI can probably only get a more certain answer on how I am after my appt this coming week (meanwhile I cross my fingers that the odds are in my favour when my height/weight is measured then HAHA) but for now -
It isn't that I don't want to eat, or can't. I can, & I (thankfully) do haha. But the tension is between 1. what I should be eating 2. what I am able to eat 3. knowing how closely what I can do, matches what I am supposed to do. The closer the match the better but I'm figuring that I can't make a good estimate for my own sake(!), so oops.
When I first posted that weight comment earlier, I freaked a little cos my bathroom scale said I was abt 115-116 pounds/52-odd kg, hahaha my pre-Mirt weight was closer to 119-120 pounds/54-odd kg. Hahaha so it isn't THAT significant a difference (yet/I think!) but like I said - even to go beyond my starting weight, feels rather intimidating. Like, what is going on!?! (Especially because losing weight isn't exactly my forte ..) I'm abt 159cm/5ft 2.5inches, so its not terribly high or low yet, but nonetheless not my natural weight I reckon.
I think I've since (hopefully) pushed that back up, but also slowly realising that it's detrimental(!) to eat too much, too quickly. When I find myself doing that (initially deliberately, to get as much food in as possible haha) - I find that my body doesn't handle it too well, .. so for now, small(er) & more frequent portions help, I think. As does eating a little more slowly. Haha eating too quickly gives me a headache later (it feels weird saying this cos I doubt I've ever experienced getting a headache from eating too quickly before this!) Keeping some Be KIND bars & Milo packets (juice-box-sized with straw) handy in the meantime, which helps, so far.
Also realising I do better on less processed food (homecooked over fast food, fruit over ice cream, kinda stuff) - I'm quite glad for that, yay!
Quiteee certain I don't want to handle this medically (cos - how hard is it to put something healthy into your mouth, chew & swallow it !? Mentally I'm okay with doing it as of now, so it isn't a disordered thing, but sometimes my body doesn't want to handle it as well as I wish lol) but if I need to, there's Ensure readily available at the pharmacy - though I'd prefer not, can't help associating it with the stigma of an ED heh cos I know people who were put on that for such reasons before.
For the moment I think I'm mainly trying to avoid - 1. losing more weight 2. the resultant headache/lethargy of eating too quickly and/or having too much processed food. 3. any consequences of not eating regularly/properly (like, gastric or low blood sugar etc) ..so -fingers crossed-!
- Dee x
Hi Kerry -
ReplyDeleteUpdates from The Doctor's Appointment - I don't really know how much weight (loss) is daily fluctuation & how much is Actual loss, but at the appointment I found myself another pound/half-kg down, BMI 20-ish (!) now :-/ Doc didn't really say anything (for now saying nothing is good heh) though but I suppose if it gets really bad (like 18.5 or less), she would voice that out. Anyway the slips at the clinic do state the range for weight so even though BMI is not always the best gauge, I suppose as long as I'm BMI 20 I'm fine ?!
But I didn't realise it was so obvious until I was choosing a dress for an event (in the awareness that I can't wear those too-huge-now clothes I bought last Christmas), & picked one I remembered wearing in Dec 2013 - way before these Mirtazapine mess things. I did ask if I looked fat (haha this is such a girl thing), or if the dress looked too poofy on me (bcos, other end of the spectrum ..) - sister was like, "FAT?! It looks huge."
Me: Huh. I could wear this in Dec 2013 before All Of This ..
Sister: Ya exactly.
- - -
Meanwhile (this feels like warped logic but nonetheless plausible ..) - do you think it is possible that the attempt to eat more ends up ironically speeding up metabolism rates to burn calories faster? (& I'm more a couch potato than exercise geek hahahah) Bcos, I mean I would support that logic with the same one on why breakfast is the most impt meal of the day & should be eaten within the hour of waking .. bcos that gives you energy to Do Stuff.
.. Likewise, eat more -> more energy to burn calories -> lose weight!?!
Does that even make sense/has anyone had a similar experience?
I feel like I'm drinking Milo out of my nose hahaha (not that it's bad, cos I love it - but to drink 3 250ml packs of malted chocolate drink per day & still not put on weight .. feels like something doesn't tally up!) :-/
Meds wise I'm considering the possibility that the sleeplessness is heightened from the new meds (quite awhile already, post-Mirt, yes) so I'm trying to see if taking that in the morning interferes less with night sleeps. Works good for now although the waking-early-falling-asleep-waking-up-again still seems to be a thing! :-/
- Dee x
So I ended up being kinda curious about valerian (like, I Googled it hahaha) & wasn't too sure how to get reasonable access to it (I am Not going to buy it off a health food store in capsule form lest my family wonder what is suddenly wrong with me, + that is So Expensive anyway) - until in the supermarket I was in the tea aisle & chanced upon the Clipper Tea Sleep Easy Infusion. Was drawn to it cos of the name, & as I took a look at the box I realised it had valerian in it(!!)
ReplyDeleteSo I decided to take a chance and buy a box (I have x number of half finished types of tea at home already aha, quite an embarrassingly high number. & I just, last got new teas two months ago too ..), reading the reviews that put it on two extremes - either a nice touch of citrusy & an effective sleep/relaxation aid, or a cardboard-tasting waste of money.
Haha thus far I'm finding that the calming/sedation kicks in like .. within 15 mins hahaha I feel my body calming already, almost like a non-medicinal version of Mirt itself haha. That said I think it has enough niceties (Rooibos, Orange extract) to make me not hate it, & an equal amt of nasties (Cinnamon? In tea? I love cinnamon, but only in baked goods! & I wonder if the other weird tasting note of the tea comes from Valerian, haha I honestly don't know) to make me unable to love it as much as I'd like, taste wise.
Overall though I like it enough to probably stick to it for maybe the rest of the week, & if this turns out to give he same sedative effect as Mirt without all the drug-chemistry nasties, I'd be so pleased & thankful haha :-)
Will update on this maybe! :p
- Dee x
Hi Dee,
DeleteHows it going? I hope things are a bit better than they were? How's the tea working out?
Kerry x
hi again Kerry - excuse this extremely belated reply - I think I'd seen your reply soon after you wrote it, but delayed replying .. which later turned into just plain forgetting up till now!
Deletethe tea was good, though being generally lazy to keep routines I haven't been as dutiful in keeping up to it as ideal - but it's a calming & tasty pre-sleep beverage with a little honey & some ice! It has been a welcome remedy when I do turn to it, which is lovely.
looking back (& reading new responses- eg from the person 19 months mirt-free - which also reminds me to continue tracking, I'm at 9.5 or 10 months I think) - I realise .. well, I do wish things could be better sometimes, but overall it's been a huge improvement from my initial days.
Haha, I remember days where the entire night felt so sleepless & the most I'd get is abt 3 or so hours of significantly disturbed sleep. Not fun at all, especially also remembering the terrible cold sweats & gastric stuff, ick.
I will admit I could be doing this regain-my-sleep thing more dutifully/strictly, but taking into consideration of all my indulgences - occasional coffees & using my mobile at night for leisurely social media things (& blocking off bluelight with an app to feel better abt myself haha) mainly - it's nonetheless a significant improvement from the first couple of months post-withdrawal. I do fall asleep later than I should (& sometimes end up waking up late as a result #oops), but for the sleep I get, it's mostly undisturbed yay!
never managed to figure that sudden weight loss thing but after a period of sufficient Milo packets & KIND bars (felt like I was inhaling them through my nose or something at the time lul) it went away, yay! so for now, no more funky fluctuations & I'm thankful to be at a normal-person-normal-weight. Yay again :D
Still no where near recovered in terms of the GAD that brought me on this crazy Mirt misadventure, but for that I suppose there's my psychologist & the therapy stuff that works things out. Still sometimes wishing that sleep could be better - but I suppose, it's a tradeoff for my cheat indulgences lol.
So in general? Just thankful that time does make things better, even if crazily slowly ... (to all who have just started, it does get better. But it DOES take _that_ long to get there. It's like ... looking back half a year later & realising there's been a change for the better, that kinda thing. You don't rly see it day to day/week to week haha.)
- Dee x
Hi Dee,
DeleteIt's really great to see your progress! Well done! I'm glad your weight has sorted itself out. I think the whole Mirtazapine withdrawal is a work in progress...It's over 3 years now for me, and I still have trouble with GAD and my sleep can go a bit off sometimes. It's almost like a full time job trying to keep depression at bay. I wish it wasn't like that, but hey well, what can you do?!
You're right! Day to day you don't notice things getting better. When the bad days do come, I look back and see how far I've come on my journey and it gives me such a feeling of achievement!
Best wishes!
Love Kerry x
Just needed to put it out here somewhere that this week (last dose was 5 May last yr) will mark a year of Mirazapine freedom, YAY!
DeleteI mean it was not like I could go back on them in the meantime (as in, finished my last dose .. and didn't have any more left), nor will I ever want to ask for it again, actually :p (I made such a fuss to get off it. If my regular SSRI isn't sufficient someday, we can always make plans .. that don't involve Mirtazapine, hahaha)
Actually I don't think my sleep is still anywhere near perfect but .. half of that 7kg never came back, thankfully - I would think the rest are fluctuations of fancy food (or not), exercise (or not) & general take-care-of-self (or lack thereof) kinda stuff.
Mm yup never going back, & the first couple of months were horrific, such that I decided to Google & withdraw with further, smaller doses as per internet approval and not my doc's lol, but the alternative would have been cold sweats & bad gastric and .. an extended struggle with sleep. Haha.
ONE YEAR DOWN AND NEVER GOING BACK .. for now we wait till I can say I've fully recovered for one yr from my anxiety disorders, but uh not happening soon I think lol.
Hope you're well, Kerry - & your blog has been such a gem to me in this aspect. :-)
Dee x
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteSo glad I just found your blog on google, I have been on Mirtazapine for 2 years due to anxiety and depression as i was bullied in school and never seemed to of got over it. I was then given this drug and i gotta say it did help me for 2 years managed to get some of my life back and start again i guess, there was a time i couldn't leave the house and now im getting out a lot more. I decided to come off the drug about a month ago due to stomach problems which began when i took this drug. I have now realized that it wasn't the drug I have been diagnosed recently with IBS and i also have lupus and chronic fatigue syndrom to begin with so the stomach problems wasn't due to mirtazapine.
Anyway as i said been a month now since i stopped the drug, First week i was like this wasn't bad. second good god it's been bad since... No sleep till 5-6am and only 3hrs sleep ever since, Sickness, Headaches, This weird crawling in my arms (all over my body too), Restless leg sydrome, Sickeness as soon as i wake up in the morning, Sweating and i just in general feel unwell. When i said to my doctor i wanted to come off he said that i can just go cold turkey from 15Mg, I was on 30Mg went onto 15Mg for week. I ignored him to be honest and i done a week of 7.5Mg then halfed that.
I have spoke to my Docotor about my Side effects and he told me "It's not the drug mirtazapine leave's the body in 4 days It's just your anxiety" I mentioned i have been reading forums though and he said "ignore the forums they do you more harm than good" and he reccomended i go back on them... I haven't as after reading this im starting to think my doctor is a idiot and knows nothing about what he gave me 2 years ago. But thank you for all your information on your withdrawal symtoms.
What i wanted to know was how long was you on this drug for and when exactly did all these side effects go away ? As i gotta be honest this is killing me at the moment.
-James : )
Hi James,
DeleteI'm sorry you're having such a hard time:(
I was on the drug for at least 5 years (could be as long as 7 but I'd need to check my records)!
All in all, I think it took about a year for my body to settle down from the withdrawal. Sleep and my appetite were the last to come back. The itching and restless legs were some of the first things to disappear (4 months in).
I tapered off for several months before I took the plunge to stop the drug completely, and it was still awful. I wouldn't recommend cold turkey!
I won't lie - it's gonna be hard! But just take each day at a time... Hang in there:) Keeping a diary might be useful to track things, but also to see how far you've come when the bad days come.
Best wishes,
Kerry.
Hi Kerry,
ReplyDeleteI wanted to provide an update, to give people some hope that things do get better--eventually. I'm close to 19 months Remeron-free.
Most of the symptoms are either significantly better or gone. The majority of the time, I sleep well for 6 or 7 hours a night. Periodically, I wake up in the middle of the night, but usually can go back to sleep. I function much better on 6 or 7 hours than I ever did on the 10 or more I got when on the drug.
All the headaches, dizziness, nausea, feeling ill and such have disappeared. Allergic responses are rare now and mostly mild. Still have muscle stiffness at times, periods of lower energy, and food sensitivities. But all those are so much less than they were early on.
I have to emphasize that I didn't just sit around and wait for things to get better. I cleaned up my diet, including lowering histamine, started exercising regularly, did a load of qi gong and meditation, and have worked with an acupuncturist, naturopath, and a chiropractor. It's taken a lot of hard work and due diligence to come through this as well as I have. A few supplements proved helpful, once my system was able to handle them.
Not only would I refuse any antidepressant or psych med in the future, I'd be highly unlikely to agree to take any med over a long term. I very rarely even take a painkiller anymore. My system is highly sensitive because of the Remeron and withdrawal from it. So I do my very best to take care of that sensitivity. There are many excellent alternatives to taking drugs, things that don't have nasty side-effects.
Hope you're doing well..and congratulations on your marriage.
Hi Judy,
ReplyDeleteCONGRATUALTIONS!! That is so great to hear! I know how hard it is. Not many people come out the other end.
My system is also still very sensitive, I avoid wheat, gluten, dairy, sugar, caffeine, yeast , alcohol and all processed foods if I can. I now make my own deodorant as I became very sensitive to aluminium. But I feel soooo much better. I do still get tired sometimes, but I think it's going to take a long time to be like a 'regular' person.
Life is good, and marriage is nice:)
Well done!
Kerry x
Whoops, excuse major typo! I still haven't worked how to edit a reply once it's been published.
DeleteThanks Kerry. I have to avoid all the foods you listed, plus a host of others. Most high histamine foods are out--tofu, strawberries, tomatoes, spinach, black tea(even decaf), most legumes, a lot of spices. Good for you on making your own deodorant. Chemical sensitivities can be a real problem too. I use only natural products for cleaning as well..
ReplyDeleteI think the fatigue can go on for some time. But I've also had times of a lot more energy and feeling better than I have in decades. It's a long process healing from these drugs.
So glad to hear the marriage is good and life is treating you well. You deserve it.
Hi Kerry - cngrats on sticking with your plan and always looking at the end goal you planned to achieve and did. I have been on Remeron for 64 days. Started at 15mg for 21 days and then they increased to 22.5mg for 27 days and then 30mg for 16 days. My journey towards Remeron started around July 20, 2015 with a flu like virus and then 2 weeks later developed vertigo. I could not sleep or eat and that's when I developed severe anxiety. By doing neck exercises I got rid of the vertigo but the anxiety stayed as did the not sleeping. My family doctor tried me on Ativan and that worked for a few weeks and then stopped and I developed panic attacks and took myself to ER and they changed me to Clonazepam which seems to help except makes me so tired during the day. GP also tried me on a SSRI which I got a severe reaction to and stopped within 3 days. I was so scared as I was not eating or sleeping and having these anxiety attacks I took myself to a physiatrist clinic at one of our hospitals as I thought I was going crazy. They did an assessment and said my adrenal gland was in panic mode because of the vertigo and they needed to bring my body back to a calm state. They started different SSRI and SNRI which I do not do well with. I get all the worse possible side effects that most people do not. They figured if they used an AD it would work on on the anxiety and I could come off the Clonazepam. The PDoc I am seeing is upset with me because I do not respond to any meds he has prescribed and said I was the type that just could not take meds. So his last resort was the Remeron. I did not get any real side effects and could actually sleep which was great but it did nothing for my anxiety. I asked could we not just deal with that issue and he got upset and said that maybe I should be in therapy. I am all for that but here it takes so long to get to see someone even the PDoc I have to wait 3 weeks before seeing him again. I have lost about 44 pounds thru all this and still losing. My GP has done blood work, heart tests, internist and all tests come back that I am very healthy except for this anxiety.
ReplyDeleteSo 2 days ago after seeing my GP and she was at a loss I decided to wean off Remeron. I have dropped from 30mg to 22.5mg and will stay at that dose for maybe 2 weeks and then try and drop to 15mg. Then I go back and see the PDoc. First day I was a little dizzy and spacey feeling and had tingling up and down the arms. 2nd day not too bad a little nausea but no real dizzy feeling. Sorta feel like my old self. I am still taking the Clonazepam as directed so that is helping I am thinking. Sleeping is still okay just still getting the anxiety though not as bad as when on the 30mg. I have started going back to the gym for at least 2-3 times a week for one hour doing treadmill, bike and lifting weights. I also walk my dog at least 1 hour daily so hope that is helping as well. I have always believed more in natural healing and am fighting these meds which is not helping. I need to relax and accept this is just a phase of my life and set that goal that I will bet this demon. I do not plan to stay this way it will take time and patience right? Any suggestions or comments greatly appreciated by all. I am checking into the B vitamins. Like B100, B12 and Folic acid which I have been told might help not at once and they will no interfere with the meds I am on now. I use Chamomile/Lavender tea a lot and put drops of Lavender on my pillow at night.
Thanks for getting in touch!
DeleteI think because you're taking clonazepam it will help while you come off Mirtazapine. Even though you haven't been on the drug that long, you may still get a withdrawal 2-ish weeks in. But hopefully you are one of the lucky ones!
It sounds like you're doing all the right things - exercise is great for anxiety and aiding sleep at night.
Valerian tea is also very good for relaxing at night - I call it 'nature's valium'. I steep 2 bags in an inch of boiling water and drink an hour before I go to bed. It's very powerful!
If you're in to meditation or hypnosis apps, they can be really good for anxiety. If you have the resources to pay for private therapy, it might be worth considering. You won't have the long wait and you are more or less in control of how long you see them for and how often. Getting private therapy was the best thing I'd done. I wish I'd done it years ago. I used to go every week, but now I go maybe once every 4-5 months. I don't know if you're based in the UK but here, you get maybe 12 sessions on the NHS, then they say, "okay, that's your 12 sessions up!" It doesn't matter if you're in the middle of sorting something huge. With private therapy you avoid that, and many people have a sliding scale if money is an issue.
Good luck, and best wishes,
Kerry x
Thank Kerry and I am in Canada. I have also decided to go see a Natural Path which I see this Thursday as I have always believed in a more natural approach until 7 months ago when I was hit with this anxiety. Maybe she can help me.
ReplyDeleteI am also going to enroll in some CBT classes as well. Here we having waiting lists to get to see anyone that is a specialist. I plan to stay on the 22.5mg for about 2-3 weeks and then try for the 15mg. What do you think. I go back to see my PDoc on March 22 and pretty sure he will want to change the AD since the anxiety is still an issue. This is the same PDoc that I really do not like but I have no choice as my doctor referred me to another one but I can't get in until May. Oh and on the Valerian tea not I had some and had a bad reaction because of the Klon.
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
DeleteThat's a shame about the valerian tea:( A lavender based tea might be of help?..
How are you getting on with the Natural Path doctor?
It's really up to you and how you feel, but going by experience, I would recommend taking a longer time to taper. It's the thing I regret not doing, but I was so determined to get off the drug as soon as I could. I took 6 months to taper, but I should have probably taken a year or more. I've been told my withdrawal wouldn't have been so severe, but who knows?!
I was on Mirtazipine for eight years and only tapered slightly when I went off. The hell lasted for over four months - anxiety, nausea, sleeplessness, short of breath, headache, etc. That was Spring/Summer 2015 and now I have no appetite unless I smoke pot.I love being 27 pounds lighter, but no more loss please! I used to love salads - veggies, fruits and nuts - but just the thought makes me stomach turn. I get about three fork-fulls of food in and my body says I'm done.Will my appetite ever come back?
ReplyDeleteHi Kathy,
DeleteMy appetite was one of the last things to come back - it took a year in all, but it did come back. I managed to stimulate it a bit by weightlifting, and I also made lots of calorific smoothies with peanut butter or cream to try stem the weight loss. Often I just forced myself to eat and I found that once my body got used to having more food, it started to ask for it.
If you would like extra support please could you contact me via the contact form, and put you in touch with a closed Facebook group - they're a really nice bunch of people who are going through the same thing.
It's been 4 years for me, and unfortunately my memory of my withdrawal experience has faded a bit.
Hello,
ReplyDeleteI've been on Mirtazapine for 8 years. I was put on it when I was younger and had people advising me to take it as it helped me sleep and eat.
I've now recently come off it after tapering down from 45mg. The smallest dose was 15mg and I can't break up the tablets or they dont work. Tapering lasted about a month.
The first two days without it were disgusting. Experienced all the symptoms people have mentioned, most severely, the mood swings. They have become manageable now.
My current issue is that my skin randomly feels like it's on fire on my arms, legs and particularly scalp. It can be utter hell when in public. I can't see a visible rash, but it itches so bad I look like I'm convulsing when trying not to scratch.
Trying antihistamines at the moment but not much effect. Any suggestions?
Thanks x
Oh no...I really feel your pain...that itching has got to be one of the worst things ever. If I remember right, exercise helped me bit - I had restless legs along with the itching, but I don't think anything got rid of it completely. I've still got the scars on my hands when I broke the skin scratching like mad!
DeleteI'm not a doctor, but if you've been on the drug 8 years, and only had a month-long taper, it's not surprising you're having a withdrawal like this. I tapered for several months, and in hindsight I would have tapered for a year or more.
There's a Mirtazapine withdrawal private Facebook page that has people going through the same thing. If you'd like to become a member, please contact me through the contact form on the blog and I can put you in touch with them. My memory of withdrawal is fading quite a bit now, but there are people who are going through it right now who are a great support. I can promise you that the itching does go away...it was one of the first things to go. Best wishes,
Kerry x x
The itching could well be related to the histamine issue from Remeron. If you read some of the posts above, you'll see some discussion about a low histamine diet.
DeleteBut jumping off at 15 mg is an awfully big jump. The surviving antidepressants site listed at the top can help with how to taper successfully. Being on for 8 years and then dropping that quickly isn't a great idea. Some people can manage, while others can end up in long-term protracted withdrawal.
I jumped off at 3.25 and over 2 years later, am still dealing with issues from it. In particular, histamine issues. This means I have to eat a very limited diet, keep stress to a minimum, take a number of supplements to help reduce histamine, and spend huge amounts of time on self-care practices. In addition, I'm seeing a chiropractor, massage therapist, an acupuncturist and naturopath, to help deal with additional fall-out from a too-fast taper.
Read the surviving antidepressants site about reinstating, which would be your best bet. You could then do a slower, easier taper...and likely have far fewer withdrawal symptoms. Believe me, you don't want the past 2 years I've had and while things are better than they were, it could be a long time before my life is more normal.
Judy
PS. Antihistamines further deplete the enzyme that helps you digest histamine in food, compounding the problem. In addition, some people have bad reactions to it, because of it's similarity to antidepressants.
DeleteJudy
HI Kerry...
ReplyDeleteI am currently tapering Remeron going from 15MG used for two months currently at 8.1Mg tapered within a period of three months. I am planning to go slow in order to preserve my stability. Can you please put me in contact with the Facebook group. I need to be sure i am doing the right thing.
Hi there,
DeleteCan you get in touch with me via the contact form on the right hand side near the top of the page? I need your email address to pass on to the administrator of the group, then she can add you - because it is a closed private group you have to be invited first!
Good luck in your journey - hope to hear from you soon. Kerry x
Doctors they don't know a jack shit about what's better for you I hope you know that? I hope everyone knows that already, the system we are in it is too much complex to be comprehended from an outside "doctor" point of view! Those guys are just there ready to give you more pills so they can keep their god damn retarded job and be part of the slavery of being a stupid! I took this shit for 2 years because I was forced from those fucks because I could not sleep, thought another pill saved me but I was taking it just 1 or 2 or 3 times a month, not every day, then I was ok for days after taking it, but that mirtazapine crap, as soon as I had one month alone I decided to stop it for some reasons I felt inside of me ! and fuck it was shit hell, the first 3 - 4 days I stopped it actually felt even better than usual then, freaking diarrhea and weigh on my brain feeling came and knocked me down like a piece of shit, I started to look at my self in the mirror there was nothing as near as a zombie no make up needed ! I could not fucking get outside of the door that the freaking birds and noises were making me vomit, THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH LIFE IS SIMPLE:
ReplyDelete- EAT GOOD
- ACT WHEN YOUR BODY IS TELLING YOU SOMETHING IS WRONG AND ERADICATE THE THING THAT IT'S OBVIOUSLY WRONG AROUND YOU
- DO SOME MANUAL WORK - be with nature
- GO TO SLEEP AT THE SAME TIME
- LEARN CONSTANTLY HOW TO BECOME A BETTER PERSON.
THAT'S IT
So true
DeleteI am raging how this drug had had wrecked my body and mind and spirit
I am desperate to come off after two years
No antidepressant effect at all
I'm wired anxious body a wrecked
It's criminal they ever prescribe this
I wish I'd followed your prescription of the good life instead
I am bloody minded and going to beat this
Have you got through the withdrawal yet?
DeleteI need hope!
Hi I need advise. I went cold turkey with Mirtazapine and its been already 25 days now. I was on it for nearly 2.5 to 3 months but not regular. 3 /4 days a week which. its a horrible drug no doubt. in fact its poison. Although I have no issue with my eating, nausea etc. What I have is severe insomnia, cant sleep on my own. Some time I take melatonin sometime chlorphenramine but that too after few days. Mean If I am unable to sleep for 48 hrs only then I take these medicines. I have decided that I am not going to take mirt again but what do I do for sleep. If the withdrawal had to last for few months I can not survive without sleep until then. And I also do no want to get addicted to another medicine. Any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteCan I have your email to contact you directly please.
All,
ReplyDeleteFirst I want to say thank you for this blog and all of the posts. I'm not the type of person that gets relief when someone says "you aren't alone," but this particular site has helped me quite a bit.
It's been awhile since there's been a post, so I thought I'd share my story to inspire hope in anyone that finds this page. I have a habit of using the word Remeron as opposed to Mirtazapine.
I have a history of panic attacks going back to childhood. While I am NEVER depressed, my mother has suffered from severe depression her whole life. This coupled with some traumatic events when I was very young have made me who I am today, positive & negative. I have been on ADs on and off a few times in my life, but have gone years without.
Let me say I am not one of those people that believes ADs are all worthless. I believe they save lives in a lot of cases - both short and long term use. When some PhDs speak of them as pure placebo it frustrates me almost as much as when more PhDs speak of AD withdrawal as psychosomatic. I'm becoming less frustrated with the latter in recent times because anyone who says this says it out of ignorance & obviously hasn't taken the drug. PhD or not. I laugh it off, sometimes there's just no convincing the stupid.
I believe some ADs are better than others. And I believe the withdrawal risk makes some of them avoidable at all costs. I haven't had withdrawal from short term use (2-8 months) of Zoloft, Paxil and at the time, Remeron. This shows how little I knew. Effexor was difficult, but Remeron is insidious.
I first tried Remeron in 2000 when I was 21, at college, and suffering a withdrawal from Effexor. It was my first experience with anti-depressant withdrawal, and it was difficult. A doctor put me on Remeron for 1 month to assist with this. I was on and off in a month or less (can't remember the exact amount of days), piece of cake, and it totally rid me of the Effexor withdrawal.
Panic attacks came and went over the next 10 years, but not with enough frequency to make me "get on something." Nothing too bad. Then in 2010, I started having them much more frequently & they were interfering with work. I decided to find a good shrink and request a drug that worked well for me in my childhood, Tofranil / Imipramine, a TCA. I didn't trust SSRIs, SNRIs, and certainly not anti-psychotics which were all the rage. I got on a low dose, and I felt great.
In 2015, for no really good reason (hindsight), I decided to take myself off of Imipramine. The withdrawal experience I had surprised me and I decided to get back on. I'd get off at a later date. At the end of 2017 I decided to walk on my job as a software developer and pursue an independent effort from home. This, I thought, would be a good time to get off Imipramine. After all, if it gave me withdrawal in 2015 & never before, it must be dirty, right?
Then I got a GREAT idea: why not get on Remeron to assist with the Imipramine withdrawal? It worked for me in the past with zero negative effects, let's try it again. My shrink agreed. So I began an Imip taper in Feb 2018. By June, I was off Imipramine and on 15mg of Remeron. I kept a spreadsheet of everything entering & leaving my body. I noted my weight, drugs, alcohol intake, and made journal entries.
Like clockwork, Imipramine withdrawal hit 45 days after my last dose in July. Again, in hindsight, it really wasn't that difficult & only lasted about two weeks. I remained on Remeron (upped to 30mg) and took Clonazepam as needed.
What did the Remeron do for me up through this point? Nothing. It would put me to sleep, but I never really had trouble with that, ever. I was a zombie in the mornings. You all know the drill. Living in fear of the Imipramine withdrawal, I stayed on it a bit longer.
Then the panic attacks started. I called them panic attack 2.0s. They were longer, more debilitating, and more frequent than the 100s I'd had throughout my life. One day in August,(after a horrible week of panic attacks), I woke up and felt very drunk. I had the sensation of "walking behind myself" when I was going down the stairs. I then had another massive panic attack & the day had just begun. It dawned on me - I feel like I've OD'd on serotonin. I'm not a doctor, but that's the only way I can describe it. Is Remeron causing this? Why's it doing this now / recently? I didn't yet put 2 & 2 together in my head & realize that while Imip was still in my system / programming, it was possibly protecting me from Remeron a bit. Remeron may not be the drug for me now, I thought.
ReplyDeleteSo I took the night off. The next three days, I was a different person. I felt fantastic. Three days after that I was back where I was. Ok, I thought, I'll get back on 15mg as opposed to 30. That'll fix me up until this "Imipramine delayed withdrawal" passes. Now I know Imipramine was long gone & I had a new enemy. But then, I hadn't realized it yet.
The anxiety got worse. I couldn't work, I couldn't drive & I couldn't be left alone. 3 panic attacks a day and anxious when not having attacks. All day. I went from life in the big city making great money, to an exciting independent venture, to a helpless child riddled with fear and panic attacks. I found a new shrink and once he saw the frantic state I was in just leaving the house to go to his office, he put me on a mega dose of Seroquel. I didn't want to, but at this point I was afraid I was going to drive everyone around me nuts. Those around me who knew my situation pushed me to do it with good intentions.
The Seroquel helped a bit, but good God it's strong. And the dreams... all blood and guts. I stopped it cold after a week.
It's now late August and I'm at the end of my rope. The days are horribly long and are anxious from start to finish. I tried everything short of strenuous exercise (I couldn't leave the house and exertion brought on panic attacks). Different foods, meditations, a psychic, chakra meditations & teas. I documented all the things I'd defined as "bad" that I'd done to people throughout my life and atone in tears & solitude. Even forcing myself to watch my father's funeral video from 2008 repeatedly would make me cry & "purge." None of this stuff, particularly the latter guilt-ridden nonsense I mentioned, helped.
I decided that getting back on Imipramine, resigning to it, and getting off Remeron would fix all of my problems. In my 2015 Imip crash, getting back on Imip brought me around in about 3 days - it's a fast acting drug. Again, this shows me how little I knew. I was on Remeron for 117 days. I cold turkey'd Remeron and got back on Imip.
When I didn't think things could get any worse, after a week they did. And a week after that they got even worse. 5+ panic attacks a day. Solitude. Girlfriend cannot leave the house. Panic attacks in my home office. Panic attacks in the garage. Panic attacks in the middle of meditations. Panic attacks when the phone rang. Panic attacks if you'd shine a light in my face. Stopped eating. Crying all the time - I never cry, particularly in front of women (Irish machoism). Holy crap, I'm experiencing withdrawal symptoms from Remeron. What? I trusted this drug. What? It's been Remeron this whole time that's been the problem? Fine, I was only on it 117 days, I'll be fine in a few weeks. Shows how little I knew.
I took a benzo & went back to my original shrink & she insisted I go on Lamotrigine, a mood stabilizer. She was afraid for my heart & health having so many panic attacks. I cried in her office right when she said it. I didn't want any more drugs. I looked at my girlfriend who had driven me & said, screw it, I'll try it & deal with any consequences later.
ReplyDeleteToday is 12-15-18. I'm off Remeron 89 days today and feel 90%. The Lamotrigine has helped. I haven't had a panic attack in over a month & haven't had a benzo in 35 days. Will Lamotrigine cause withdrawal? I hope not & I refuse to read about it at this stage.
The most important thing I want people to read from this post is this: You may have brief crashes after you think it's over. This is what sapped all the hope from my soul. I would have 1-2 weeks in November where I was driving again, living again, almost overnight. This would be followed by a week of "back where you started." One week I'm out at a restaurant in public, next day I can't even drive myself to Walgreens. You cannot lose faith. I am lucky I have a strong woman in my life who is good with words that kept me from losing faith in the midst of these crashes. If you don't have this level of companionship, please read these words: Remeron is insidious and unpredictable. Big dips may come and go during your healing process. You cannot give up or lose faith.
And for crying out loud, don't do what I did - cold turkey. Taper instead.
A list of my withdrawal symptoms are as follows:
- Panic attacks - did I mention those?
- Weight loss - 165 to 138. I'm now steady at 147 and resigned to my "new weight."
- Waking up with a start between 1am-2:30am - this didn't start until a good 30 days into withdrawal and continues today, though I've been able to fall BACK asleep for the last month. Sublingual Melatonin helps along with Trazodone which is a very mild SSRI. I used 50mg on and off for about two weeks. With me it had a 30 minute "fall asleep" window, so be mindful of that. I suffered no ill-effects from this drug the few times I used it.
- Crying. This was new to me. This is also something that happens first when you're doing well & withdrawal "returns."
- Chills / zaps / shakes / tingling in the arms
- Depersonalization
- Chest pains & shortness of breath
- A sensation that someone is pressing on my head, between my eyebrows. That's the only way I can describe it. I can feel it as I'm typing this.
- Hands and feet will occasionally "kick," like some people describe RLS to be, but not when laying down flat.
- Inability to nap, or not realizing you actually slept if you did nap
- Tinnitus
- Water cravings
- Inability to concentrate creatively
- Black spot in vision once an hour or so
- A doctor telling you withdrawal is psychosomatic
- A routine physical telling you there's nothing wrong with you
- A realization that you belong putting a ring on it because she's still around after everything you put her through.
What helps:
- Meditations do help a lot of times. I used an app called "Stop, Breathe & Think." The meditations I did religiously were "Body Scan" and "Relax, Ground and Clear."
- Yard work
- Busy work
- Work involving numbers
- Cleaning
- Any sense that you've accomplished something, no matter how big or small. A feeling you've "worked" at all.
- Helping someone
- Being kind
- Being open with people you trust
- Being careful of what you read on Google
- Believing that you'll return from a crash that's followed a good period
I hope like hell this helps someone. I will return to check in & answer any questions, if anyone has any for me. My absolute best to you & good luck to you all.
-Patrick
I came off this cold turkey and had absolutely zero issues - right up to about 2 weeks.
ReplyDeleteThen I had a histamine storm and was in London on the most polluted day of the year. By the time I got home my chest was tight, by the next day I was allergic to everything (it's usually penicillin, ibuprofen, cats). My lung function fell to 25% normal, peak flow down to 30% - I could barely see, walk, even standing up caused what was basically anoxia. It took me almost 2 years to recover and I'm 90% sure it's done permanent damage - I've had pneumonia twice since including coughing up blood (never ever before) and this last time I lost 20lbs in three weeks and have been on 12 * 30mg codeine daily for the back pain it's caused.
If you have *any* allergies you absolutely *have* to take an antihistamine at the same time as you come off, whether your doctor likes it or not. One person covered with cat hair on the train back from London could easily have killed me - the reaction was that bad.
I was NEVER told that Mirtazipine affected histamine metabolism
I was NEVER told I'd put on weight (+40lbs) or have sleep issues (ongoing)
I WILL NEVER EVER GO BACK ON ANY ANTIDEPRESSANTS, nor will I accept a girlfriend or family member being put on them, especially Mirtazipine. The right answer to that suggestion involves two words - one of which is always "off". They've been proved to be dubious at best and downright harmful at worst and reading these horror stories..
Mirtazipine - just say "not until Satan goes to work on a Snowmobile". (that's the polite version)
Finally always always always do your own research into the meds your doctor wants to ram down your throat. It may well save your life, sanity, eyesight etc.
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